So many statements thrown around. Everyone got an opinion. But what do we base them on? Tiki speaks with emotions, Sun is the PC principal in southpark, myself base it on subjective preferences. Others have entirely different definitions on how to make a comparison of let's say La Liga and EPL.

So hear me out. Bottom-up. That's the way everything should be govern, and the way we start this analysis.

The revenue in EPL for 2014-15 is 4070m euros in comparison to La Ligas 2053m euros. The average club income is £155m for EPL in comparison to £77.5m for La Liga. And we all know which teams generate and receive most of that money. Luckily enough at least the tv rights will change with a new legislation that was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

However, In comparison EPL are miles ahead in this game with over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe.

So, that's the money part. But we all know that EPL clubs pay way more than most other clubs for similar talents right? Okay. Let's check the VALUE of the clubs i.e. the collected perceived value of the clubs and not the transfer sums. Beginning from the bottom up (according to transfermarkt - the most reliable source for this measure).

See a pattern? Obviously excluding the odd ones. Because money does not explain everything (Chelsea last season - Valencia this..), but the pattern is clear as day. The richer the clubs are the better players they can attract. In fact EPL pays higher wages than La Liga and Serie A combined with a weekly average of £43,717 to La Liga's £23,327 a week.

That's only money you say? Nopp. It's value, incentives AND money.

Now, to an older thread I created (and didn't finish before the transfer deadline) about the netto transfers. Is EPL a team that buys players or sells players? And the same for La Liga etc. You be the judge.

EPL

Arsenal In: 37.5 Out: 0 Net: -37.5
Bournemouth: In: 27.5 Out: 17.9 Net: -9.6
Burnely: In: 2.5 Out: 0 Net: -2.5
Chelsea: In: 65 Out: 12 net: -53
Crystal Palace: In: 23 Out: 9 net: -14
Everton: In 7.2 Out: 48 Net: + 40.8
Hull: In 4.5 Out: 0 Net: -4.5
Leicester: In: 35.1 Out: 39.5 Net: +4.4
Liverpool: In: 63.9 Out: 36 Net: -27.9
United: In: 123.2 Out: 0 Net; -123.2
City: In: 118 Out: 4.1 Net: -113.9
Middlesbrough: In: 18.8 Out: 0 Net: -18.8
Southampton: In: 22.8 Out: 56.7 Net: +33.9
Stoke: In: 18 Out: 0 Net -18
Sunderland: In: 8 Out: 0.7 Net -7.3
Swansea: In 2 Out: 27.9 Net: + 25.9
Spurs: In 29.5 Out: 8 Net: -21.5
Watford: In: 16.2 Out: 8.5 Net: -7.7
West B: In: 6 Out: 0 Net: -6
West Ham: In: 22.4 Out: 10 Net: -12.4

Total Net:-372.8m pounds Total revenue: 929,4m pounds

1.17 conversion rate to euros. Total Net: -436.2m€ Total revenue: 1087,4m€

**La Liga***

Alaves: In 0.55 Out: 0 Net: -0.55
Atletico: In: 79.5 Out: 9 Net: -70.5
Bilbao In: 0 Out: 0 Net: 0
Barcelona: In: 83.3 Out: 13.6 Net: -69.7
Celta: In: 7 Out: 13.5 Net: +6.5
Deportivo: In: 5.6 Out: 0 Net: -5.6
Eibar: In: 3.1 Out: 5 Net: +1.9
Espanyol: In: 9 Out: 0 Net: -9
Granada: In: 0 Out: 25.2 Net: +25.2
Las Palmas: In: 1.8 Out: 0 Net: +1.8
Leganes: In: 1 Out: 0 Net: -1
Malaga: In: 10.3 Out: 0 Net: -10.3
Osasuna: In: 0 Out: 3.8 Net: -3.8
Real Madrid: In: 27 Out: 37.5 Net: +10.5
Real Sociedad: In: 10.7 Out: 9.6 Net: -1.1
Real Betis: In: 15 Out: 8 Net: -7
Sevilla: In: 47.5 Out: 71 Net: +22.5
Sporting: In: 0.6 Out: 0 Net: -0.6
Valencia: In: 10 Out: 41.5 Net: +31.5
Villareal: In: 42 Out: 12.3 Net: -29.7

Total net: -108.95m€ Total revenue: 603,95m€

Now please compare the transfers for teams at the bottom side of the table in EPL and La Liga.

So, for your statements to be true, La Liga must have endlessly better scouts, youth systems and academies given that their resources are not nearly as big as EPL's. And I don't think they are. However, I do believe that Spain produce much better domestically products because of a better football climate and because of the corrupt FA. EPL has 66.4% foreign players while La Liga has 41.6%. I hold it for true that EPL buy a lot of good Spanish players. That's not what this is about though.

Do you need any other proof that EPL bottom teams are better than La Ligas? Just look at a game between them and a top team in the league. Look how they week in and out beat the top teams. Look how none of the matches in EPL are certain in advance. Where you surprised that Pool got beat the other day? I certainly wasn't. And before you watch the game have a look on the odds given from the pundits. Any 1.06 odds in EPL? Nopp.

Sources:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/tottenham-player-salaries/
https://www.rt.com/sport/345182-premier-league-wages-report/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-big-four-leagues-goals-3513388
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/study-reveals-premier-league-highest-155522255.html

City couldnt beat them in 2 games, see the gap ?

Well, no, because I pointed out: they BEAT PSG last season, held Madrid to a 1-0 win over two legs, and have beaten Bayern in 50% of the games they've played against them in the last few years. And yet? They scraped 4th last year, and beat Barcelona this year, for all of your excuses.

So, no, the gap isn't there. It's time for you to reconsider your opinion, like you promised you would.

Why aren't you doing that yet?

A level is seen on a number of games, last 4 years City out of 8 games lost 7 and won once, and look at your conclusion, laughable.

So? Barcelona are better than City. Who diasgrees with this? No-one. So, what point do you think you're making? Just because City are not as good as one of the Top 2 teams in the world doesn't mean they are crap, nor does it mean that they are not better or as good as the rest of Europe's top teams, whom they have been beating.

What's laughable is how clearly you are refusing to engage this point, and instead keep talking about Spurs and Celtic.

Why can't you just admit you are wrong?

So? Barcelona are better than City. Who diasgrees with this? No-one. So, what point do you think you're making? Just because City are not as good as one of the Top 2 teams in the world doesn't mean they are crap, nor does it mean that they are not better or as good as the rest of Europe's top teams, whom they have been beating.

The point is, how can you blame liga teams for not being competitive with the top 2 teams in the world as you said, when even top 6 cant cope with it ?
How can you treat them as weak teams ? While you admit that City being inferior to them doesn't take anything from their form ?

The point is, how can you blame liga teams for not being competitive with the top 2 teams in the world as you said, when even top 6 cant cope with it ?

I don't blame them for anything. Not beating Barcelona is not much to be ashamed of, for any team. However, that doesn't mean that all those teams are on the level of the PL's top 6, just because no-one can reliably beat the Catalans.

Also, don't forget how much Barcelona get to focus on the CL precisely because they have the league in the bag most years? If anyone picks up a knock, they can be rested easily because the reserves will be enough to beat off most teams in the league.

That's not true in the PL. In the PL, the title challengers have about 4 or 5 other teams that are capable of beating them, and many more who can pull out surprise results. In La Liga, both Barca and Real have only each other and Atletico to truly worry about, in terms of First XI. That, and the CL fixtures. And, if it really is true that a full-strength Barca can beat any English team, then maybe they really do have ONLY Real and Atletico (and Bayern) to worry about, and can rest even further.

can't blame the English teams for not being able to beat Barcelona very often when Barcelona are only one of many, many games where they would need their First XI in order to try and cope with at all.

How can you treat them as weak teams ?

Well, because again so many of the games are walks in the park for Barcelona. You can't say that about the clashes they have with PL teams, at least not as often. Especially when those PL teams ARE beating other teams like Bayern and PSG on a regular basis.

I can't see Sevilla beating Bayern, for example. I can't see Villareal defeating PSG. Such things may happen, and if so thn I guess I'm wrong, but you're going to have to do a lot of work to convince me that the 'other' Spanish teams could do as well as City, Chelsea and Arsenal have been doing.

You don't have to remind me that Spurs were crap in Europe this year. So were United the year before, and Liverpool the year before that. Notice how both of those teams slipped outside of the Top 4 the very same season -- I hope Spurs don't fall into the same trap. So of course English teams are not just 'dominating' in Europe the way that they used to about 4 or 5 years ago.

But that was then there was only a Top 4, and not a Top 6. Now it's even harder to do well in the league and Europe than ever before in recent memory.

But every year, that pool of 5 or 6 teams (plus the Leicester wildcard, which we all know won't happen again) shifts, and is good enough to compete with (and even defeat) those same teams who are doing well enough against Bayern and PSG, even if Barcelona keep taking them to school.

Does that make sense?

Thats your problem, you think a league is in the bag. I can say that Chelsea has the league in the bag because they are unplayable atm while we both know it's not, they deserve it week in week out, a bad run could kill the form. That's what big teams try to preserve, the hunger of their star players ( if you have BO contenders it's easier ), the concentration and to manage the technical or tactical edge to be the most consistent possible, and its not as easy as it looks.
Teams like Celta Vigo and Sociedad have better H2H vs Barca than top 6 except Chelsea, why would you or others claim that they would be weaker than Southampton or Everton for example ON THE PITCH. I never said they were better than top 6, I just don't think that the rest of the teams in PL are not superior On the pitch than their counterparts in La liga, Conte's Chelsea looks like Atletico Madrid of 2013 with Arda Turan/Koke/Diego Costa/courtois.... They have a tactical edge, solid in the back, In form Diego Costa.... Simeone and Conte are same kind of coaches in term of management. That Atletico that won the league had to fight every game winning 1-0 many times and protecting their small lead. Winning la liga is not a walk in the park for 2 reasons : you have the hardest team to compete with, And many teams play only defensive with counters when you keep possession.
A team can make games easier if they control the game fast but it doesn't take anything from Spanish teams strenght and that's what you are pointing here.

I also think that top 6 is not an appropriate word since it depends on form and we are still looking at who will compete with Chelsea for the title atm, City who started very well collapsed, United made time find their form but I'm waiting them to beat a big team, Liverpool showed that in a game they can beat anyone but drop points stupidly while winning ( talented but lacks experience/maturity ), Arsenal with the in form/bad form runs...
PL will be competitive only if Chelsea drops level. What would be the best is that they keep progressing and Next year 2 other teams match them in term of consistency, then you will have a winning mentality comeback. Mou and Pep may need some transfer markets and time to get there.

Getting a bit annoying with tiki slandering PL as "shit level" while repeating that Barca, Real and Bayern are better than the top 6 EPL teams. (Doubtful - Chelsea would beat any of them now). I thought by now we had already established that. Why on earth are you a broken record?

Also, Celtic isn't a mid table PL team.

Also, City were as good or better both legs against barca in CL.

Damn , you guys really made an epic discussion about this . Maybe this time this will be final .

@tiki PL is competitive .. just see what Guardiola has to say about it . Also , why do we have to repeat simple fact which is that no one won the PL title in December . In La Liga 9 points up is end of the season ..

That is my few pounds into discussion , cheers , I have contributed in 2017 ;)

Just adding to the conversation. I saw tiki trashtaking Spurs (Or if he was just trying to lay the bate for Lodatz) in this thread or the best striker thread. When we say there are approximately 6 teams that could potentially fight for the title it means that there are 6 teams that are somewhat equally good over a period of time. Today, Spurs are favorites to win against a full strength Chelsea that has won 13 league games in a row. Trashtalking Spurs? Don't.

Probably would have ben better to have written that^ after the game, because Chelsea will win ;) But I predict Spurs to put on a hell of a fight.

@KTBFFHSWE yeaa... they have put 2 goals into our net together with a fight ..

Thats your problem, you think a league is in the bag.

For Barcelona and Madrid, it typically is. The main team they have to worry about is the other one, and Atletico, and the rest of the league they can field the reserves. Look at how Madrid smashed Sevilla with a weak XI.

It's that simple, and I think your problem in turn is that you don't realize that the PL is nothing like that.

Teams like Celta Vigo and Sociedad have better H2H vs Barca than top 6 except Chelsea,

I don't believe that is true. Can you show me the stats?

Simeone and Conte are same kind of coaches in term of management.

Well yes, they both watched Mourinho.

A team can make games easier if they control the game fast but it doesn't take anything from Spanish teams strenght and that's what you are pointing here.

I'm pointing to the fact that Barcelona and Real can both field reserve players nearly every week in La Liga, and still be head and shoulders above the rest of the league. When City do the same... they lose points. They simply cannot afford to save their best players for European clashes and El Clasico the way that the Big 2 can.

That doesn't change the fact that Barcelona and Madrid are better than any team in the Top 6, but what the 'Top 6' refers to how many teams are in a generally equal pool in terms of talent and potential. Some years some teams are managed better than others. Some years the players have outstanding seasons, and every single year the teams who didn't do as well spend money or change managers to try and fix the problem.

That's why the Top 6 is so fluid.

It's also what makes it hard for a super-team to emerge, like Chelsea and United were, once upon a time. Imagine combining the squads of City and Chelsea, or United and City, or Tottenham, Arsenal and City combined. You'd be looking at teams with squads who can handle challenging for the title as well as trying to compete with Barcelona and Madrid.

Instead, you're looking at 5 or 6 teams who keep on splitting those great players between them, so busy competing amongst themselves.

Oh yes, that's pretty interesting

@Imranjaffery Its a old thread but yeah, it is. Welcome to the forum btw.

Guess who was right again :D

This was a good thread, but I still think PL bottom sides > La Liga sides.

No matter what evidence is to be shown, some people just won't budge. La Liga teams will dominate 9/10 times against PL teams, and they always do. Whatever, it is what it is.

id rather watch 2 bottom of the table spanish sides play than 2 bottom of the table english sides. it's different football, la liga>pl

This still holds true. Probably even more so.

SoccerBoss

Depends on the teams we are talking about tbh, Bilbao is a low La Liga side, but I rate them very highly. Then there are teams like Vallecano who I think aren’t very good at all. PL teams are similar too, Leicester is very strong, but I don’t think Cardiff are strong at all. Overall I believe PL passes.

La Liga teams will dominate 9/10 times against PL teams

would they? how can you be so sure?

@tiki 2 years later you are still wrong since we still do not have any evidence besides our opinions, or a bottom EPL vs bottom LaLiga CUP happened? And even if it happened it will prove that the specific year that league was better.

EPL[bottom table]:
-Money
-Player quality

LaLiga[bottom table]:
-Football tactics
-Player development

Funny how this thread got revived the moment I wanted to see if FR is still alive