So many statements thrown around. Everyone got an opinion. But what do we base them on? Tiki speaks with emotions, Sun is the PC principal in southpark, myself base it on subjective preferences. Others have entirely different definitions on how to make a comparison of let's say La Liga and EPL.

So hear me out. Bottom-up. That's the way everything should be govern, and the way we start this analysis.

The revenue in EPL for 2014-15 is 4070m euros in comparison to La Ligas 2053m euros. The average club income is £155m for EPL in comparison to £77.5m for La Liga. And we all know which teams generate and receive most of that money. Luckily enough at least the tv rights will change with a new legislation that was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

However, In comparison EPL are miles ahead in this game with over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe.

So, that's the money part. But we all know that EPL clubs pay way more than most other clubs for similar talents right? Okay. Let's check the VALUE of the clubs i.e. the collected perceived value of the clubs and not the transfer sums. Beginning from the bottom up (according to transfermarkt - the most reliable source for this measure).

See a pattern? Obviously excluding the odd ones. Because money does not explain everything (Chelsea last season - Valencia this..), but the pattern is clear as day. The richer the clubs are the better players they can attract. In fact EPL pays higher wages than La Liga and Serie A combined with a weekly average of £43,717 to La Liga's £23,327 a week.

That's only money you say? Nopp. It's value, incentives AND money.

Now, to an older thread I created (and didn't finish before the transfer deadline) about the netto transfers. Is EPL a team that buys players or sells players? And the same for La Liga etc. You be the judge.

EPL

Arsenal In: 37.5 Out: 0 Net: -37.5
Bournemouth: In: 27.5 Out: 17.9 Net: -9.6
Burnely: In: 2.5 Out: 0 Net: -2.5
Chelsea: In: 65 Out: 12 net: -53
Crystal Palace: In: 23 Out: 9 net: -14
Everton: In 7.2 Out: 48 Net: + 40.8
Hull: In 4.5 Out: 0 Net: -4.5
Leicester: In: 35.1 Out: 39.5 Net: +4.4
Liverpool: In: 63.9 Out: 36 Net: -27.9
United: In: 123.2 Out: 0 Net; -123.2
City: In: 118 Out: 4.1 Net: -113.9
Middlesbrough: In: 18.8 Out: 0 Net: -18.8
Southampton: In: 22.8 Out: 56.7 Net: +33.9
Stoke: In: 18 Out: 0 Net -18
Sunderland: In: 8 Out: 0.7 Net -7.3
Swansea: In 2 Out: 27.9 Net: + 25.9
Spurs: In 29.5 Out: 8 Net: -21.5
Watford: In: 16.2 Out: 8.5 Net: -7.7
West B: In: 6 Out: 0 Net: -6
West Ham: In: 22.4 Out: 10 Net: -12.4

Total Net:-372.8m pounds Total revenue: 929,4m pounds

1.17 conversion rate to euros. Total Net: -436.2m€ Total revenue: 1087,4m€

**La Liga***

Alaves: In 0.55 Out: 0 Net: -0.55
Atletico: In: 79.5 Out: 9 Net: -70.5
Bilbao In: 0 Out: 0 Net: 0
Barcelona: In: 83.3 Out: 13.6 Net: -69.7
Celta: In: 7 Out: 13.5 Net: +6.5
Deportivo: In: 5.6 Out: 0 Net: -5.6
Eibar: In: 3.1 Out: 5 Net: +1.9
Espanyol: In: 9 Out: 0 Net: -9
Granada: In: 0 Out: 25.2 Net: +25.2
Las Palmas: In: 1.8 Out: 0 Net: +1.8
Leganes: In: 1 Out: 0 Net: -1
Malaga: In: 10.3 Out: 0 Net: -10.3
Osasuna: In: 0 Out: 3.8 Net: -3.8
Real Madrid: In: 27 Out: 37.5 Net: +10.5
Real Sociedad: In: 10.7 Out: 9.6 Net: -1.1
Real Betis: In: 15 Out: 8 Net: -7
Sevilla: In: 47.5 Out: 71 Net: +22.5
Sporting: In: 0.6 Out: 0 Net: -0.6
Valencia: In: 10 Out: 41.5 Net: +31.5
Villareal: In: 42 Out: 12.3 Net: -29.7

Total net: -108.95m€ Total revenue: 603,95m€

Now please compare the transfers for teams at the bottom side of the table in EPL and La Liga.

So, for your statements to be true, La Liga must have endlessly better scouts, youth systems and academies given that their resources are not nearly as big as EPL's. And I don't think they are. However, I do believe that Spain produce much better domestically products because of a better football climate and because of the corrupt FA. EPL has 66.4% foreign players while La Liga has 41.6%. I hold it for true that EPL buy a lot of good Spanish players. That's not what this is about though.

Do you need any other proof that EPL bottom teams are better than La Ligas? Just look at a game between them and a top team in the league. Look how they week in and out beat the top teams. Look how none of the matches in EPL are certain in advance. Where you surprised that Pool got beat the other day? I certainly wasn't. And before you watch the game have a look on the odds given from the pundits. Any 1.06 odds in EPL? Nopp.

Sources:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/tottenham-player-salaries/
https://www.rt.com/sport/345182-premier-league-wages-report/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-big-four-leagues-goals-3513388
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/study-reveals-premier-league-highest-155522255.html

I still think Sunderland would beat Osasuna with ease.

I'm not sure I disagree. That being said, the England hype is pretty real, and as we've said, we don't have statistical facts to back up one side or the other, just assumptions. That kind of discussion isn't one that merits a conclusive answer, and if you can't have a conclusive answer, debate is quite pointless.

Hence why I backed out of this argument as soon as that fact became established.

So having 5 teams competing for the title is the same as having 2 (and a half)? The difference is we never know which order they'll finish. Remember the predictions before the season start?

Ok then wich team of PL big 5 would compete on a 38 games VS Barca/Real ?

Don't need to reply.

The day Barca/real will have troubles in the dressing room, overpaid lazy players, greedy owners, 2nd or 3rd tier in term of big stars attractivity, bad runs as a usual situations, useless youth teams, loss of identity ... there will be competition for the title like in PL, and Liga will see the title holder ending up 10th the next season it doesn't have any relationship with bottom teams.... Until then, CL winner is Bayern/Madrid/Barca, Atletico as an outsider and i dont see this change in the short term.
When SAF United was rulling, these kind of arguments didn't exist....

The day Barca/real will have troubles in the dressing room, overpaid lazy players, greedy owners, 2nd or 3rd tier in term of big stars attractivity, bad runs as a usual situations, useless youth teams, loss of identity ... there will be competition for the title like in PL, and Liga will see the title holder ending up 10th the next season it doesn't have any relationship with bottom teams.... Until then, CL winner is Bayern/Madrid/Barca, Atletico as an outsider and i dont see this change in the short term.

Can't take anything you say seriously.

Anyone else?

Our opinions are based on inconclusive data or no data at all. Hard to convince the other party(s) because of this issue.

The day BPL will have refs to push the teams to 1st place in the table, to help them so they show the minimum effort to win a game, to not end the match untill the big team scores an equalizer, the day a team will be gifted to win the semi-finals and move to finals, the day RVP wont be given a red card for no reason and other ''accidents'' like that. I will consider taking seriously your argument.

Deluded as always.

Hope you don't take what you say seriously too, because when you compare top 5 of PL to top 2 " and half " of Spain as if they were equal as a league argument. How is that serious ? When the " half " you are talking about played 2 finals of the last 3 CL only loosing to Barca/Madrid last 4 years.... while the best result of the top 5 was a semi final last 4 years due to good draws...
Atletico can beat Bayern consistently, i can let you speculate on bottom teams since we don't have H2H games to compare, but don't start comparing top teams because last years we have more than enough data to send your claim as " has been "
Top 3 of Spain are part of top 4 in Europe atm, the reason why Leicester or Spurs will never fight for the title in Spain nor Germany....

Is there any link between top 5 inconsistency and any kind of strenght ? A big club mentality is to win silverwares and comeback the next year with bigger ambitions, Comming back with a holidays mentality is not what makes a league stronger. All I see is hype, winning PL isn't as complicated as winning CL No matter how overhyped you make it look.
Dont take it seriously then.

One has to scroll through a lot of bullshit to find something meaningful when tiki goes on and on, but maybe this is a point that we can follow up on:

Is there any link between top 5 inconsistency and any kind of strength ?

Also, Chelsea would be able to beat Atletico! What now? In fact, everything you say just enforce my arguments. Atletico's squad is valued to the same as Chelsea's or City's while Barca's and Real's are valued to way more, thus partly explaining why they're a better team.

Question remains, does value in squads matter when facing cross league opponents. We know as Dynastian said that budget certainly does not seem to matter. But what about value?

Who with EPL, and whos with La Liga?

Finally!!!!!!

nothing else to say?

Good reply. You're just great.

Just doing a tiki. I know this doesn't prove anything,but hey it's fun to read!

Asked about Chelsea’s run, Pedro said:

“It’s not new for me, but it’s difficult in this league. It’s
different here. At Barcelona, it’s normal to win most of the games and
sometimes it’s too easy..." “But the Premier League is very competitive and strong, and for this reason, 11 wins is a significant achievement. The record is 14, no? Only three wins more, but that will be difficult. Bournemouth are a good team. It’s a very good objective to get this record.".. “It’s very different in Spain. Barca have many opportunities all the time to win matches, which in England is very difficult because the challenges are greater. You can see it week after week – the top teams lose to a team near the bottom because everybody is very good and the competition is very tough.”

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/25/antonio-contes-rapid-revolution-chelsea-built-trust-says-pedro/

i think, It just mean Barca is superior.. and indeed they are, along with Real. Anyway, he just stress again how competitive EPL is (doesnt matter what reason) which we are all agree on

Tiki, I gotta ask you the same question. Your reply was even more useless than my original comment, which is sad

Tuan Jinn, that's a consideration, but you gotta look it from another view. The point gaps in the la liga are much bigger compared to the EPL, except from the bottom 3 from last season.

Plus, Barcelona, Real and Atlectico are champions league favourites, but i doubt they will get 88 plus points in the EPL

In reply to Tiki below

Tiki, the thread was about bottom teams being better than one, not competitive or teams. But it links..

You make no sense mate, no offense intended here btw.

Yes, Barcelona are one of the best teams in the world and lost 2 games this season, but then again, they were resting players for the Manchester City match when they lost to Alaves.

Chelsea on the other hand have no european competition. You cannot guantree that any of the three teams can do what Chelsea are currently doing. I don't like seeing Chelsea play this way ( obviously) but I have to credit them. They will play more bottom team games then top, as they are a top team.

Now, if Chelsea had played Las Palmas, Malaga, Alavas, Celta Vigo, Real Betis, Deportivo, Leganes, Valencia, Sporting Gijon, Granada and Osasuna ( bottom), I personally believe they will have a larger chance of winning these games than they already have. They have already won all the bottom sides except Stoke ( who they haven't played, and have a game in hand from the time this was written) and Swansea, where Conte was using 4 2 3 1.

Yes, I might be baised, but a lot of the La Liga teams are extremely poor, like Osasuna, who can just go back to the Segunda.

You can look at it from an other view only if there wasn't H2H games and no Europeen domination, fact is out of 8 games Barca met City they won 7 and lost 1, considering that City is not Hull City nor Sunderland, how can you still deliberately look into the view that may suit you Amir ? Thats what i dont understand from you.
What Tuan said is clearly what I wanted to say, The reasons of competitiveness are known unless you don't want to see them. Ligue 1 Is more competitive than PL this season and we all know why ( PSG aren't as consistent as before ) doesn't have any relationship with leagues quality. at the opposite, the leader of PL having fresh blood more than 4 players in the starting XI, new coach, New tactic, short period to adapt and still dominating teams weak in week out.

But then and I call it hypocrisy, why nobody is pointing other teams weakness rather than Chelsea actual strenght ? ( its a false question we all know the answer ). 12 wins in a row from Chelsea : everyone goes mad but none is pointing rivals weakness, I don't think their rival were weak, they just outplayed them all and it's exactly what Madrid/Barca are doing for years now with the best players in the world and a great team work. Pointing these kind of arguments is not respecting the work of these teams in domestic and Europeen level.

Reminding it may look useless, but then it's due to some stubborn atitude In here.

And I'm pretty sure that 3 teams in Europe can do better than what Chelsea are doing in PL, because they have a better squad, more stability and more understanding between players. ( no value bs argument for me ), and these 3 teams if you fake not recognizing them are the CL favourites every CL for half a decade now.

I think I can't be more explicit than this Amir.

If Chelsea could get 87 points in 2014/15, and they were smacked clean by Atletico 3-1 at the Bridge, what makes you think Real/Barca today won't be able to get 88 points in the EPL? This is just two years ago... the EPL has not changed by much. Only Chelsea have improved. City, Arsenal, and the rest are all still the same.

Because they would have double the injuries.
Players in England are not afraid to tackle, I would say they are lazy to tackle rather than fear a card, in Spain when the whistle blows its Barcelona/Real Madrid getting the ball back.

Heard of WBA? Stoke? small teams fighting for relegation? They got players who would break legs until they get a better contact and dive back to mediocrity and lazyness. In Spain the only 2 who break legs is Ramos and Pepe and I doubt any of them still do it. Sunderlands pitbulls [O'Shea and Brown], all of WBA's players [XD], Stoke etc etc. Those teams would surely injure Messi or any other of the MSN.

The only team what would easily faceroll BPL is Real Madrid for me. Their bench is superior to any team right now and they can refresh their starting 11 without losing much quality.

When you try to put a team from a different league to another one you consider some basics.
-Reasons that top teams did not win league
-Physical requirements a player needs
-How many compete for the title every year.

I can only accept RM to faceroll BPL at this moment, Barcelona would crash from the injuries and all those scandals around them would prolly affect them in a cleaner league.

EPL has changed a lot.

Besides tiki_taka who even got close becoming a professional footballer here? I'm wondering due to the fact people tend to forget basic factors of the game.

Happy christmas everyone.

they just outplayed them all

No, we didn't. It was extremely tight on numerous of those games against lower opposition. Because as Pedro stated, " because everybody is very good and the competition is very tough."

@Dyn That Atletico beat Chelsea when they were good in one game doesn't say anything at all. As you've previously stated, we have to compare with numerous games. In best of cases numerous H2h's.

In general, I don't understand how Barcelona's schedule consisting of 80% easy opponents would mean that they would lose to mid-table teams in the Premier League. Would Barcelona win the the league if they moved to Premier League? Probably.. Would they drop more points than in La Liga? We wont know but I think they would because premier league is more rough. Give them 3 games in 6 days to play in 5 degrees and lets see how flashy they are.If they had to play in the PL, they would be, first of all, a lot more injury prone. And they would also experience fatigue. That would over time result in randomly losing to teams like CP and Hull (Maybe this is an argument for the EPL lower teams are level with the La Liga's- side), however ridiculous that sounds. Not that they would be a mid-table team. But they would have to fight with 5 or 6 other teams for the title. And that is a completely different story. One of the big issues in la liga is that GD is a much lower tiebreaker than in the other major leagues. This creates a stat padding bonanza which is why Barca can ut 8 in the net every other week.

What happens is that lower teams (6 and down pretty much) don't care if they lose 50-0 or 2-0 to Barcelona as the tiebreaker in case they would get equal points to Barcelona would be their previous meetings during the season (league only) before GD. So they would rather save their energy for the next match when for example Gijon plays Eibar than to try and hold the score down in the barca game, because it literally doesn't matter for them. And since this happens to everyone there is no shame in losing 8-0 to the big teams since no one gives a shit. What is more important is that you win against the teams that will finish near you in the table in case you get the same points in the end. Then there is also a lot more financial parity in the prem than in la liga. Going away to a relegation zone team can be as hard as a derby or top 4 meeting, try convincing Barca players that Eibar will fight hard to the bone tonight cause there is only 3 games left and they're one point above relegation. As soon as Barca has scored 2 or 3 goals they will give up and save their energy to the next one simply because they are not getting any points from the game and the GD almost doesn't matter.

Copy pasted most of this^.

Lol

Heard of WBA? Stoke? small teams fighting for relegation? They got players who would break legs until they get a better contact and dive back to mediocrity and lazyness.

Heard of Bilbao? Or Osasuna? These teams don't give a sh*t about whose legs they break. You speak as if La Liga does not have small teams that fight tooth and nail for relegation too, lol.

But they would have to fight with 5 or 6 other teams for the title.

Lol, go look at the tables for the EPL for the past 16 seasons. It's always a run-away win by one team, a two-team race, or a three-way (rare). Exact same as what you guys love to criticize in La Liga. I'll post some stats later to prove this.

Give them 3 games in 6 days to play in 5 degrees and lets see how flashy they are.

You act as if Spain does not have that kind of scheduling problems or weather.

Manchester City won the League Cup and reached the semi-finals of the CL last season. Wanna know how many games they played? 59.

Barcelona won the Copa del Rey and reached the quarter-finals of the CL last season. Wanna know how many games they played? 57. [Actually 62 games played, but I'm doing to discount the UEFA SC, CWC, and SuperCopa for reasons of fairness.]

That's right, if Barcelona reached the same stage of the CL as City, they would have played the exact same number of games. The second cup in England often adds more games, but you forget that Spain has two legs in every cup match. Most English teams don't reach far in both cups in England: they tend to focus on one or the other.

Let's imagine that both City and Barca win every cup possible. You know how many matches each of them would play in the season, excluding Supercopa/Community Shield?

ENGLAND: 63 games (38 league, 6 League Cup, 6 FA Cup (no replays), 13 CL
SPAIN: 60 games (38 league, 9 Copa del Rey, 13 CL)

That's a three game difference, which often does not happen because English teams usually don't go far in both cups, rather just one. Include the super cups and it becomes a two game difference in scheduling. It's basically a 60-60 season for the top teams.

Then there is also a lot more financial parity in the prem than in la liga. Going away to a relegation zone team can be as hard as a derby or top 4 meeting, try convincing Barca players that Eibar will fight hard to the bone tonight cause there is only 3 games left and they're one point above relegation. As soon as Barca has scored 2 or 3 goals they will give up and save their energy to the next one simply because they are not getting any points from the game and the GD almost doesn't matter.

If you even watch La Liga, you'd know that this "point" is complete and utter bullsh.it. Playing Sunderland is as hard as playing Chelsea? Eibar won't be as energetic and hyped up to avoid relegation as Aston Villa? Lol, get real.

I can only accept RM to faceroll BPL at this moment, Barcelona would crash from the injuries and all those scandals around them would prolly affect them in a cleaner league.

I agree. Barcelona have built their squad particularly to dominate La Liga and the UCL. If they were to suddenly play in the EPL, especially with their current sh*t squad depth, they would likely get shattered. I do believe, however, that Barcelona's agility and speed would definitely get the better of EPL defenses - which are notorious for the amount of space they leave in midfield. Barcelona would pounce on that space immediately.

HOWEVER, no other squad in Spain is built like Barcelona. Real Madrid, Sevilla, Atletico, Sociedad... they all use physical players. Villarreal is the only other team I know that use slightly less physical players. All the other teams may have slightly smaller players, but speed makes up for size. Imagine someone as bulky as Wanyama trying to catch Messi... lol. If Alexis can sh*t on the EPL by himself, and he was a Barcelona outcast, then there's no way Barcelona's team can't do the same. You underestimate how good MSN are....