So many statements thrown around. Everyone got an opinion. But what do we base them on? Tiki speaks with emotions, Sun is the PC principal in southpark, myself base it on subjective preferences. Others have entirely different definitions on how to make a comparison of let's say La Liga and EPL.

So hear me out. Bottom-up. That's the way everything should be govern, and the way we start this analysis.

The revenue in EPL for 2014-15 is 4070m euros in comparison to La Ligas 2053m euros. The average club income is £155m for EPL in comparison to £77.5m for La Liga. And we all know which teams generate and receive most of that money. Luckily enough at least the tv rights will change with a new legislation that was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

However, In comparison EPL are miles ahead in this game with over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe.

So, that's the money part. But we all know that EPL clubs pay way more than most other clubs for similar talents right? Okay. Let's check the VALUE of the clubs i.e. the collected perceived value of the clubs and not the transfer sums. Beginning from the bottom up (according to transfermarkt - the most reliable source for this measure).

See a pattern? Obviously excluding the odd ones. Because money does not explain everything (Chelsea last season - Valencia this..), but the pattern is clear as day. The richer the clubs are the better players they can attract. In fact EPL pays higher wages than La Liga and Serie A combined with a weekly average of £43,717 to La Liga's £23,327 a week.

That's only money you say? Nopp. It's value, incentives AND money.

Now, to an older thread I created (and didn't finish before the transfer deadline) about the netto transfers. Is EPL a team that buys players or sells players? And the same for La Liga etc. You be the judge.

EPL

Arsenal In: 37.5 Out: 0 Net: -37.5
Bournemouth: In: 27.5 Out: 17.9 Net: -9.6
Burnely: In: 2.5 Out: 0 Net: -2.5
Chelsea: In: 65 Out: 12 net: -53
Crystal Palace: In: 23 Out: 9 net: -14
Everton: In 7.2 Out: 48 Net: + 40.8
Hull: In 4.5 Out: 0 Net: -4.5
Leicester: In: 35.1 Out: 39.5 Net: +4.4
Liverpool: In: 63.9 Out: 36 Net: -27.9
United: In: 123.2 Out: 0 Net; -123.2
City: In: 118 Out: 4.1 Net: -113.9
Middlesbrough: In: 18.8 Out: 0 Net: -18.8
Southampton: In: 22.8 Out: 56.7 Net: +33.9
Stoke: In: 18 Out: 0 Net -18
Sunderland: In: 8 Out: 0.7 Net -7.3
Swansea: In 2 Out: 27.9 Net: + 25.9
Spurs: In 29.5 Out: 8 Net: -21.5
Watford: In: 16.2 Out: 8.5 Net: -7.7
West B: In: 6 Out: 0 Net: -6
West Ham: In: 22.4 Out: 10 Net: -12.4

Total Net:-372.8m pounds Total revenue: 929,4m pounds

1.17 conversion rate to euros. Total Net: -436.2m€ Total revenue: 1087,4m€

**La Liga***

Alaves: In 0.55 Out: 0 Net: -0.55
Atletico: In: 79.5 Out: 9 Net: -70.5
Bilbao In: 0 Out: 0 Net: 0
Barcelona: In: 83.3 Out: 13.6 Net: -69.7
Celta: In: 7 Out: 13.5 Net: +6.5
Deportivo: In: 5.6 Out: 0 Net: -5.6
Eibar: In: 3.1 Out: 5 Net: +1.9
Espanyol: In: 9 Out: 0 Net: -9
Granada: In: 0 Out: 25.2 Net: +25.2
Las Palmas: In: 1.8 Out: 0 Net: +1.8
Leganes: In: 1 Out: 0 Net: -1
Malaga: In: 10.3 Out: 0 Net: -10.3
Osasuna: In: 0 Out: 3.8 Net: -3.8
Real Madrid: In: 27 Out: 37.5 Net: +10.5
Real Sociedad: In: 10.7 Out: 9.6 Net: -1.1
Real Betis: In: 15 Out: 8 Net: -7
Sevilla: In: 47.5 Out: 71 Net: +22.5
Sporting: In: 0.6 Out: 0 Net: -0.6
Valencia: In: 10 Out: 41.5 Net: +31.5
Villareal: In: 42 Out: 12.3 Net: -29.7

Total net: -108.95m€ Total revenue: 603,95m€

Now please compare the transfers for teams at the bottom side of the table in EPL and La Liga.

So, for your statements to be true, La Liga must have endlessly better scouts, youth systems and academies given that their resources are not nearly as big as EPL's. And I don't think they are. However, I do believe that Spain produce much better domestically products because of a better football climate and because of the corrupt FA. EPL has 66.4% foreign players while La Liga has 41.6%. I hold it for true that EPL buy a lot of good Spanish players. That's not what this is about though.

Do you need any other proof that EPL bottom teams are better than La Ligas? Just look at a game between them and a top team in the league. Look how they week in and out beat the top teams. Look how none of the matches in EPL are certain in advance. Where you surprised that Pool got beat the other day? I certainly wasn't. And before you watch the game have a look on the odds given from the pundits. Any 1.06 odds in EPL? Nopp.

Sources:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/tottenham-player-salaries/
https://www.rt.com/sport/345182-premier-league-wages-report/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-big-four-leagues-goals-3513388
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/study-reveals-premier-league-highest-155522255.html

Oh, and just for completeness, here's that proof about the 92%:

And compared to the PL:

See? It's really, really obvious when you include the most relevant data of all.

@Dynastian Is Lodatz a di.ck. now too?

He simply proved you are deluded and you are wrong. You know NOTHING of football, you are the average Real Madrid plastic who picked the team to win arguments and to show the icon with the crown just to feel a bit more royal. You read some football and now in your head you are a professor.

Personally Idgaf if I am banned after this post but the satisfaction Lodatz gave me with the way he analyzed and shutted your mouth is pure joy in my eyes. Now go cry to admins like a bullied kid and ask them to ban me again.

@Lodatz

Your arguments are solid, and I do agree with you. I'm not sure if you've read all my previous posts but I have stated that there's no doubt that Real and Barca overwhelmingly dominate La Liga (recently Atletico as well). The Top 2/Top 3 in Spain are stupidly strong, and both our data prove that.

Do you notice how there are 6 different teams in there for the PL, and only 3 for Spain?

Again, man, I've already said this. Here's my quote.

"Well, about 80% of the time it's Barca/Real, but you're right. That's the problem EPL fans have with La Liga. The difference in the EPL is that the balance of power fluctuates. I still think I'm 100% correct in the sense that both the EPL and LL have about 2-3 teams realistically competing each year for the title. But in LL, two of those teams are guaranteed to be Real/Barca - at least until the balance of power stays static in Spain. In the EPL, you never know whether it's United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc. I understand your position on this debate."

We're literally on the same page here.

@Joze

Now go cry to admins like a bullied kid and ask them to ban me again.

No need, I can do that myself. You're the only one on this page who is breaking the rules. Also, I'll leave your pleasant comment on this page so everyone can see. Enjoy the ban.

Hey Joze my friend, keep it civil. You went too far there mate, but I hope you come back from that ban soon! We should all try to keep this a great thread with civilized arguments in difference to all similar threads that has been before. Sooner or later they have all been shut down because people take it to personal. I'll gladly continue on debating this topic however!

So, for your statements to be true, La Liga must have endlessly better scouts, youth systems and academies given that their resources are not nearly as big as EPL's.

Has anything that has been said in this thread changed this? Why would La Liga (average-below mid) teams be as good or better (tiki) than EPL's? For this to be true, the above statement that I posted in my original comment must also be true? Or, do you disagree?

We've shown that EPL is way more competitive with all teams pretty much beating each other. We've shown that the money is much greater. We have shown that the average value of the team is much greater. `We've shown that mid and lower EPL teams buy more players than they sell in difference to La Liga's. Adding to that, the popularity of the league (amount of viewers - mainly because a much better marketing by English FA) and the average attendance is much greater too (La Liga has 9 teams with an average attendance below 20k - EPL none!). Doesn't this matter?

Does this mean that la Liga given that they haven't got the same resources in general, make up for it by having much better academies? and much better youth systems? and do much better transfers and so on? Do EPL teams -even the lower teams just buy expensive talent without getting anything back?

Or is it the fact that La Liga rely on more technically skilled players, while EPL rely on more power and strength that gives them advantage according to the pro-la liga side? - I feel that EPL teams in comparison to each other are more diverse in tactics than la Liga's, meaning that the top teams must change their tactics for every single game. Is this a downside in comparison to La Liga's teams?

Adding to that how do you see the managers role in this, given that even mid and below mid table teams in EPL can attract well-known managers? Doesn't this make the teams better?

Well if Tottenham are part of 6 teams competing for PL each year, then RIP the level of English Football.

@Lodatz

Why can't you simply just admit that the Premier League is more competitive than La Liga? I've never understood why it's so hard for you to admit this, even when it's demonstrated to you beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Complete misunderstanding. One look at the EPL and you can tell it's more competitive.

@Dynast

Your arguments are solid, and I do agree with you. I'm not sure if you've read all my previous posts but I have stated that there's no doubt that Real and Barca overwhelmingly dominate La Liga (recently Atletico as well). The Top 2/Top 3 in Spain are stupidly strong, and both our data prove that.

And I certainly do agree with you there too. I can hold my hand up as someone who doubted whether or not Atletico could hang in there as a rival beyond their 2014 success, and they proved my doubts wrong. There really is no question over which league has the stronger top teams in the last few years.

But, that's also something which has been conceded a long time ago, and it's true that this strength at the very top does not run through the whole league. Therefore it's not something which can be relied upon to argue that one league is stronger than the other. For that we have to look to different types of data, and most of those strongly imply that the PL has deeper strength throughout the league. Whether that's down to money, prestige or whatever is entirely up for debate, but as a fact itself it really should be clear by now.

Not every person who prefers La Liga also hates the PL, but there certainly are some who do, and they ruin it for everyone else. Just look at tiki's latest attempt to troll me, adding literally nothing to the conversation. I think the reason why this keeps coming around again (and again, and again) is because there's still this prevailing attitude among the PL-haters that the PL is somehow crap, just because none of the English teams are currently on the level of Barca and Madrid.

That is clearly not true, and we can (and have) prove it in a hundred different ways, but as a claim and a barrier to discussion it never goes away, because the intention behind it is to simply derail conversation and just insult the PL. Like I said in my first reply, so long as we (that is, anyone who wants to talk seriously about this) have to put up with such trolling, it's just going to go in circles, and we'll never get to agree, shake hands and all just move on. Especially on an English-speaking site, which is trying to grow its forum activity back up.

The key is to finally acknowledge what the problem is, and tell them to stop.

We're literally on the same page here.

Well then maybe we can avoid accusations of manipulating data and cherry-picking, next time..?

@Joze: while I agree with your argument, and have not been an angel myself in the past, it's not going to help us if we just go down the route of a flame-war. Unfortunately, you'll just end up giving your opponents a valid excuse to ban you. :/

@KTBFFHSWE:

Or is it the fact that La Liga rely on more technically skilled players, while EPL rely on more power and strength that gives them advantage according to the pro-la liga side?

I think that USED to be true, but in the last 10 years or so has changed, since the PL actually rose to the spotlight for many years and started attracting better foreign players up and down the league, and this in turn has inspired more technically-gifted English players to start to emerge.

When you see teams come up from the Championship and are taking short corners, playing out from the back and using basic tiki-taka, then I think it's fair to say that the league has changed a lot.

Now if only the FA could appoint someone to the England coaching staff who knows how to use that... :p

Whats the point of having 6 contenders while none is considered a real force to fear in Europe ? My Bayern friends are more than happy meeting Arsenal each year, Barca would love to draw City as much as possible, Spurs are weak enough to escape the Final stage H2H, Leicester well that will be interesting to see if they will reach quarters but none is expecting them to lift CL right ? Thats not PL but CL with the best teams in the world.
Only team I'm following closely their progression is Chelsea, I think if Conte keeps the work done properly and players underpressure injecting the mid he dream of in the summer, Chelsea will be an outsider next year and probably a serious contender after 2 transfer markets....
Whats the point of having close level when the level is shit ? Better have A Chelsea/United rivalry or another one rather than 6 teams having no chance of winning anything outside the kingdom.

Whats the point of having close level when the level is shit ?

I rest my case.

Thats harsh only for nice users, but better save time going into useless debates with stubborn users...
Thats reality, nobody fears top 6 outside their league, Bayern fans just hope to avoid top 3 teams of Spain, PSG fans were shocked after the draw more than Arsenal fans imo, Spanish teams just want to avoid Bayern considering the other big forces are playing with them in the league. And well Monaco considering their first place wanted an easier team but their representatives were happy enough escaping Bayern and Madrid in the draw....
Once Top 6 match the actual gap of level in Europe, I ll consider my opinion. But till there I don't see any difference between Monaco and top 6 nor Leverkusen and you know what I'm talking about...

Another thing, if you think top 6 will all match the level in the same time you are probably désillusional, I predict Chelsea will and maybe followed by City if They bring The players Pep will want, wich will create a domestic domination and then pretend to lift CL. Now they are just under construction, they need time, stability, and big players slowly injected with better understanding of the coach tactics and more automatism with teammates, then final stage experience will be needed for games won or lost on details, until then Leverkusen or Monaco will kick Spurs kind of teams ass.

Once Top 6 match the actual gap of level in Europe, I ll consider my opinion.

Well. The team who came 4th in the PL last year got to last year's CL semi-final, beating a full-strength PSG along the way, losing only 1-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid, who won the tournament. They also beat Barcelona this season, despite being only 3rd right now in the PL, and might even by 4th again by tomorrow.

Oh, and out of the last 6 times they've played Bayern, they've won 3. Seems pretty close.

Let's see, what else? Oh, yes, out of the last 6 games that Bayen and Arsenal have played, Arsenal have won 2 and drawn 1, as well.

Maybe you should reconsider your opinion now. :)

The team that lost 7 times in a row vs Barca home and away ? And played against Barca third defense ? We will be happy to face them anytime bro.
Agaisnt Madrid They should have gone through, they faced the weakest Madrid without Ronaldo in first leg and with an injured one in second, they still were unable to threat them more than Wolfsburg did.
Madrid got the easiest semifinals and they were pretty happy for that, now would City this season pretend to Semifinals ? Im Comming back to you :)

First place of the group was more than granted despite injuries and Barca poor start, City struggle against Celtics how do you expect them to fight for something ? And there was 5 pts gap with a complicated game in the league, so maybe Barca were fearing Sociedad more than City, we almost lost there with first defense squad.

City winning their 6 games in the league Comming full confidence to face a Barca in crisis, they still lost. Fact is what can be considered as a crisis in Madrid/BAYERN/BArca is actually a good run for the team you support.
A point in Glasgow is a shameful result in a big team standard, nothing but 3 pts at home against Leverkusen is a failure but you don't know what that word means right ?

The team that lost 7 times in a row vs Barca home and away ? And played against Barca third defense ? We will be happy to face them anytime bro.

I don't care if you are. :) Doesn't change the fact that they've already closed this supposed 'gap' with the rest of Europe, which means it's time for you to change your opinion.

Agaisnt Madrid They should have gone through, they faced the weakest Madrid without Ronaldo in first leg and with an injured one in second,

So... Madrid are a one man team now? Hey, if you say so. :)

See, tiki? You've just been given proof that your opinion is wrong, and you're trying to find any excuse that you can to avoid admitting it. You said that when the PL teams are able to beat teams like Bayern, and PSG, and hold their own against Madrid and Barcelona, that you would change your opinion, but once again you're just trying to have a fight instead.

Edit: and now you keep editing your post to throw in insults against Tottenham. Why are you determined to ruin this place?

First place of the group was more than granted despite injuries and Barca poor start, City struggle against Celtics how do you expect them to fight for something ?

Oh look, another excuse for why you lost. Funny how you always have an excuse. ;)

You know how British type of midtable PL teams like Celtics took on agg ? 9-0
City couldnt beat them in 2 games, see the gap ?
A level is seen on a number of games, last 4 years City out of 8 games lost 7 and won once, and look at your conclusion, laughable.

Pretty lucky Spurs CL are over, its not Celtics nor Leverkusen they would have faced.