So many statements thrown around. Everyone got an opinion. But what do we base them on? Tiki speaks with emotions, Sun is the PC principal in southpark, myself base it on subjective preferences. Others have entirely different definitions on how to make a comparison of let's say La Liga and EPL.

So hear me out. Bottom-up. That's the way everything should be govern, and the way we start this analysis.

The revenue in EPL for 2014-15 is 4070m euros in comparison to La Ligas 2053m euros. The average club income is £155m for EPL in comparison to £77.5m for La Liga. And we all know which teams generate and receive most of that money. Luckily enough at least the tv rights will change with a new legislation that was passed at the end of April which will come into play start from 2016 season where La Liga will sell its TV rights collectively for all clubs and the income will be shared equally between clubs. Unlike the current system where clubs sell their rights independently causing massive difference income of top 2 and the rest of the clubs in spanish top flight.

However, In comparison EPL are miles ahead in this game with over £5 billion just from domestic rights sale and premier league are expecting another £3 billion from oversees rights which means starting from 2016-17 season bottom premier league club will earn around £100 million in tv rights money and thats way more than champions of the top leagues around europe.

So, that's the money part. But we all know that EPL clubs pay way more than most other clubs for similar talents right? Okay. Let's check the VALUE of the clubs i.e. the collected perceived value of the clubs and not the transfer sums. Beginning from the bottom up (according to transfermarkt - the most reliable source for this measure).

See a pattern? Obviously excluding the odd ones. Because money does not explain everything (Chelsea last season - Valencia this..), but the pattern is clear as day. The richer the clubs are the better players they can attract. In fact EPL pays higher wages than La Liga and Serie A combined with a weekly average of £43,717 to La Liga's £23,327 a week.

That's only money you say? Nopp. It's value, incentives AND money.

Now, to an older thread I created (and didn't finish before the transfer deadline) about the netto transfers. Is EPL a team that buys players or sells players? And the same for La Liga etc. You be the judge.

EPL

Arsenal In: 37.5 Out: 0 Net: -37.5
Bournemouth: In: 27.5 Out: 17.9 Net: -9.6
Burnely: In: 2.5 Out: 0 Net: -2.5
Chelsea: In: 65 Out: 12 net: -53
Crystal Palace: In: 23 Out: 9 net: -14
Everton: In 7.2 Out: 48 Net: + 40.8
Hull: In 4.5 Out: 0 Net: -4.5
Leicester: In: 35.1 Out: 39.5 Net: +4.4
Liverpool: In: 63.9 Out: 36 Net: -27.9
United: In: 123.2 Out: 0 Net; -123.2
City: In: 118 Out: 4.1 Net: -113.9
Middlesbrough: In: 18.8 Out: 0 Net: -18.8
Southampton: In: 22.8 Out: 56.7 Net: +33.9
Stoke: In: 18 Out: 0 Net -18
Sunderland: In: 8 Out: 0.7 Net -7.3
Swansea: In 2 Out: 27.9 Net: + 25.9
Spurs: In 29.5 Out: 8 Net: -21.5
Watford: In: 16.2 Out: 8.5 Net: -7.7
West B: In: 6 Out: 0 Net: -6
West Ham: In: 22.4 Out: 10 Net: -12.4

Total Net:-372.8m pounds Total revenue: 929,4m pounds

1.17 conversion rate to euros. Total Net: -436.2m€ Total revenue: 1087,4m€

**La Liga***

Alaves: In 0.55 Out: 0 Net: -0.55
Atletico: In: 79.5 Out: 9 Net: -70.5
Bilbao In: 0 Out: 0 Net: 0
Barcelona: In: 83.3 Out: 13.6 Net: -69.7
Celta: In: 7 Out: 13.5 Net: +6.5
Deportivo: In: 5.6 Out: 0 Net: -5.6
Eibar: In: 3.1 Out: 5 Net: +1.9
Espanyol: In: 9 Out: 0 Net: -9
Granada: In: 0 Out: 25.2 Net: +25.2
Las Palmas: In: 1.8 Out: 0 Net: +1.8
Leganes: In: 1 Out: 0 Net: -1
Malaga: In: 10.3 Out: 0 Net: -10.3
Osasuna: In: 0 Out: 3.8 Net: -3.8
Real Madrid: In: 27 Out: 37.5 Net: +10.5
Real Sociedad: In: 10.7 Out: 9.6 Net: -1.1
Real Betis: In: 15 Out: 8 Net: -7
Sevilla: In: 47.5 Out: 71 Net: +22.5
Sporting: In: 0.6 Out: 0 Net: -0.6
Valencia: In: 10 Out: 41.5 Net: +31.5
Villareal: In: 42 Out: 12.3 Net: -29.7

Total net: -108.95m€ Total revenue: 603,95m€

Now please compare the transfers for teams at the bottom side of the table in EPL and La Liga.

So, for your statements to be true, La Liga must have endlessly better scouts, youth systems and academies given that their resources are not nearly as big as EPL's. And I don't think they are. However, I do believe that Spain produce much better domestically products because of a better football climate and because of the corrupt FA. EPL has 66.4% foreign players while La Liga has 41.6%. I hold it for true that EPL buy a lot of good Spanish players. That's not what this is about though.

Do you need any other proof that EPL bottom teams are better than La Ligas? Just look at a game between them and a top team in the league. Look how they week in and out beat the top teams. Look how none of the matches in EPL are certain in advance. Where you surprised that Pool got beat the other day? I certainly wasn't. And before you watch the game have a look on the odds given from the pundits. Any 1.06 odds in EPL? Nopp.

Sources:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/tottenham-player-salaries/
https://www.rt.com/sport/345182-premier-league-wages-report/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-big-four-leagues-goals-3513388
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/study-reveals-premier-league-highest-155522255.html

Barca ended up first of their group in CL for the 10th time in a row, players leaved and were signed, tactics changed, played without a coach, got internal issues, transfer banned, key injuries.... they finish first no matter wich team is in their group. Why ? It's a consistency Machine, you can beat them in a game, the more games you have to play the lower chance you can compete.
A league is 38 games, Barca/Madrid made it impossible for competition and CL stats prove that it doesn't have any relationship with league or opponents.

Irrelevant.

My friend today called me saying I'm betting on Southampton, i told him 2 things : Don't look how much they bought their players, look at how they play football and how Beer Sheeva play, they love direct football and shooting from long distance, okay when was the last time we saw an English player score a screamer outside PL, they won't leave them space and the 1,45 odd is risky buisness.
He told me look at Beer Sheeva players value on the market, we playing monopoly here, cross in the box waiting for someone to cut need spaces, agaisnt an in form Atletico you will need 500 minutes to score One that way, its outdated.

Irrelevant

Best teams in England atm play new tactics 3-4-3 4-3-3 with balance and automatism, bottom teams are inconsistent and outdated tactically, the Undefeated Spurs in PL lost twice to average players Monaco in CL, inexperience? Tactics ? Bad luck ? Style of play ? Everyone has his answer I guess mine is between all these....

Relevant. But do you mean bottom teams of EPL or La Liga or both? In that case, what does that mean for a comparison?

Spanish bottom teams lack depth, otherwise they could beat English bottom teams consistently.... Bailly as an example costed 40mil, he was never a high tier defender in Spain so till the day PL keeps overpaying player playing that kind of style of Football, any modest budget in Europe will give them a fight as long as they have tactical awareness.

-Why would they beat English teams consistently? What do you base this on?

-And we've already agreed that EPL teams overpay for their players. Value has got nothing to do with price.

-So tactical awareness is a game changer? Sounds reasonable. Do La Liga teams have more tactical awareness you reckon?

City fields B team and fail to win vs Celtics, Barca fields B team and trash Glad'bach.

We've already established that Barca is much better than City as evident of their value. Would Sevilla trash any team in Europe with their B team you reckon?

Last year Chelsea odd vs Bournemouth home : 1,80 this year odd 1,20. Doesnt mean Chelsea had doubled for times their value, they just play better on the pitch and show guarantees of success

No, it doesn't. Obviously that's not how value works. We've already seen Valencia and Leicester with twice the value of surrounding clubs struggle this year. Value must be seen in the long run.

For EL about fielding A teams, Liga teams start doing it in final stages and depending on schedules, most of the teams uses rotations even in la Liga. But the difference is that no matter who is fielded, he is asked to perform.

I reckon everyone are always asked to perform. And La Liga do field stronger teams than EPL teams in EL. Which is a good thing.

But can we say Spurs fielded a B-team in CL ? No it's deeper than we
just don't want to play EL because there is no money in it. Where is
the passion ? Is that the message you send to players ? Then i
understand why they have no issue being inconsistent and having a
night life and playing selfish " its only buisness better get my part
of the cake " Yaya Toure :)

Agreed.

Irrelevant for you,okay but can you understand that how much money a team has in the bank is irrelevant for most ( following the comments popularity ) or how much they bought their players or who they have as players as long as they play like an average team on the field ?
No need to push this that far, Sun and Tuan said everything I couldn't say I thought better anyway.

For you when Barca are consistently first of their league, its a league problem but being 10 times in a row first of their CL group since 2006 is irrelevant, don't you see what I'm implying here ?
Consistency doesn't have any league explanation...

What is irrelevant for me is assuming that if Barca/Madrid are that dominant in their league it's because of the rival weakness, wich is your main vision for a long time, cant you see how they replicate it at least in CL ?

So Barca is better than City just because of value ? You imply that Moyes United was the best team in Europe since they had the best value ? And you find me irrational ?
Barca in 2004 had Valencia budget, value increases depending on pitch results and sportive rise not the opposite. I don't think you believe in this because it's scary....
City has unlimited budget and the most spender of Europe every transfer market, Atletico Madrid has Southampton budget, let that sink in.

The fielding 2nd team and lost is utter bullshit.

@raimondo: The "consider Europa League is less important than EPL" is another completely unreasonable assumption. We just suck at it, and use lame excuses.

Look at England, all kind of excuses when going to big tournament and just fail miserably. When Chelsea won, defeated or robbed by Barca... why noone complain: or shit, the schedule of EPL is too heavy etc... when Manchester United won CL, or more recent, went to 2 finals it showed all other reasons given prior to that were craps. If a team is good enough, they are good enough.

The point @Tiki made is NOT irrelevant at all, it's to counter the fact that none of those losing were due to not wanting EL enough (again so bullshit), it's the way they play.

@tuan Despite I'm thinking the players are physically strong enough for the whole season, the schedule of EPL compared to the other leagues got is much more harder to stand for body. You may be in the best condition but being constantly under that much pressure without some break, you will suffer in long run.

@quik

In terms of physicality La Liga is pretty easy, but let's not just sit here and pretend that the EPL is the gold standard for physical play. Serie A is far more rough ( I mean, have you seen those games? Damn). Even the Bundesliga can get pretty rough and tumble, although not as much as the EPL in my opinion.

I don't think we can sit here and pretend that the EPL deserves league physicality as a mitigating factor. I agree with tuan, if the team is good enough, they should be winning. Ignoring the flukes, they should be winning consistently if they are as good as they are perceived to be. I think that English perception regarding their national team is quite accurate (that they constantly suck because their ceiling is so high and performances so low) yet fail to draw the same parallel to their league.

As for the Euro League in general, I'm not going to sit here and pretend I've watched it for more than two seasons. But what I have seen in those two seasons are United and Liverpool both field very nice squads and do...ok, I mean should Liverpool be beating Sevilla? That's kind of open to interpretation, depending on how good you think the respective leagues are. Not saying United is a gold standard or anything, but we fielded some pretty strong teams this year against some decently weak clubs (some of whom's best players are United rejects) and didn't even win the group. So there's that.

@KTBFFHSWE

And this thread is about the bottom teams, but since there is no way to compare them without using examples from teams that participate in EL or CL and draw conclusions from that.

Here are the teams from European Competitions.

2016-2017

La Liga in Europe this year

UCL
Barcelona(1st)
Atletico(1st)
Real Madrid(2nd)
Sevilla(2nd)

UEL
Villarreal(2nd)
Celta Vigo(2nd)
Athletic Bilbao(2nd)
-All 7 teams have qualified from their respective groups.

EPL in Europe this year

UCL
Arsenal(1st)
Leicester(1st)
ManCity(2nd)
Tottenham (3rd in group)

UEL
ManU(2nd)
Southampton(3rd in Group-eliminated)
West Ham(Eliminated in play-offs by Astra)

2015-2016

La Liga teams in 2015-2016 Season

UCL
Real Madrid(Champions)
Atletico(Finalist)
Barcelona(Eliminated by Atletico Madrid in QF)
Sevilla(3rd in group)
Valencia(3rd in Group)

UEL
Sevilla(Winners)
Villarreal(Semi Finals-Eliminated by Liverpool)
Athletic Bilbao(Eliminated by Sevilla in QF on penalties)
Valencia(Eliminated by Atletic Bilbao in Round of 16)

EPL teams in 2015-2016 Season

UCL
ManCity(Semi Finals-Eliminated by Real Madrid)
Arsenal(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Barcelona)
Chelsea (Eliminated in Round of 16 by PSG)
ManU(3rd in group)

UEL
Liverpool(Finalists-Lost to Sevilla)
ManU(Eliminated by Liverpool in Round of 16)
Tottenham(Eliminated by Dortmund in Round of 16)
Southampton(Eliminated in Play-offs by Midtjylland)
West Ham(Eliminated by Astra once again in 3rd Qualifying Round)

2014-2015

La Liga teams

UCL
Barcelona(Champions)
Real Madrid(Eliminated by Juventus in SF)
Atletico(Eliminated by Real Madrid in QF)
Atletic Bilbao(3rd in group)

UEL
Sevilla(Winners)
Villarreal(Eliminated by Sevilla in Round of 16)
Athletic Bilbao(Eliminated by Torino in Round of 32)
Real Sociedad (Eliminated in Play Offs by Krosnodar)

EPL teams

UCL
ManCity(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Barcelona)
Arsenal(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Monaco)
Chelsea (Eliminated in Round of 16 by PSG once again)
Liverpool(3rd in group)

UEL
Everton(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Dinamo Kyiv)
Liverpool(Eliminated in Round of 32 by Beşiktaş)
Tottenham(Eliminated in Round of 32 by Fiorentina)
Hull City(Eliminated in Play-offs by Lokeren)

2013-2014

La Liga teams

UCL
Real Madrid(Champions)
Atletico(Finalists)
Barcelona(Eliminated by Atletico Madrid in QF)
Real Sociedad(Eliminated in Group Stage-4th)

UEL
Sevilla(Winners)
Valencia(Eliminated by Sevilla in Semi Finals)
Real Betis(Eliminated by Sevilla in Round of 16)

EPL teams

UCL
ManCity(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Barcelona)
Arsenal(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Bayern)
Chelsea (Eliminated by Atletico Madrid in Semi Finals)
ManU(Eliminated by Bayern in QF)

UEL
Swansea(Eliminated in Round of 32 by Napoli)
Tottenham(Eliminated in Round of 16 by Benfica)
Wigan Athletic(Eliminated in Group Stage- 4th)

-Most of the Spanish teams are eliminated by another Spanish Team.
-Most of the English teams are eliminated by Spanish team.

Discuss.

Also:

Premier League Tables

2015-2016
2014-2015
2013-2014

La Liga Tables

2015-2016

2014-2015

2013-2014

@tuan Utter bullshit? So EPL teams don't field weaker teams in EL you say? Seems the FA discussion of giving financial incentives for EL teams to perform in EL is a bit unnecessary then? Can't be bothered to check up the starting XI from all EL teams in EL but I remember we discussed this when Spurs got beat by Dortmund away in a must win game in last year's FA final stages with Kane, walker, Dembele and Lamela on the bench. Dortmund meanwhile fielded a very strong team with Reus, Aubameyang and Mhkitaryan (as they should). How come?

@KTBFFH: Uhmn, for a football association that's their responsibility, they always want to boost local teams performance to achieve the best possible resulst. That's a country face and in this case English FA. It doesn't explain the point of our discussion here. If any country want to give fiancial incentives to any of their clubs, or national team to win a cup, does that mean because those team field weaker squads? Answer is: No!!! England has been performed badly in Europe, and that's the only channel to compare leagues.

You are taking examples of a few games which are far from sufficient to make those statements

Let's take most recent event, Southamton was kicked out because of some lesser Ukrainian team in a game they only need a 0 - 0 draw or a win, and they let them draw 1 - 1. The president, coach were mad and feel like shit. Please dont say they dont want this EL. They just sucked badly. I dont generalize the whole thing because of this game, this is just to point out how ridiculous it is to say EPL teams careless about this cup. It's not true. We just aren't good enough.

With that being said, checking those analysis, sometimes it raised my eyebrows too. And I agree you are right to a certain extend. But I stand to my point of view.

Samir Nasri was asked about his Sevilla start, here is some points he said about the team the exigence the players and the league in general :

• How did you end up at Sevilla ?
  I had a terrible year last year with injuries so I went at the end of the year in holidays, I enjoyed it but in pre season I came back a little fat, I had 4 kilos more than I should have, for Pep the maximum weight t tolerated was 2,5 kilos after an injury or preseason. So I had to train alone until reaching the 76 kilos asked by Pep he wanted us to be fit and fast, he asked some players to loose wait and gain agility.
  ( he denied Boateng last year CL quarters for wait problems after 4 month injury, he had to train alone until becoming fit )

I had to train hard and prove myself because Pep had self made opinion on me, I made him change his mind by hard work, he kicked me in the ass one time and told me you are such a waste, with your potential you should have been playing for Barca....

• journalist : ( oh thats interesting specially the part that pep thinks Barca is better than City as an institution) " laughs "

He told me, you should stay I told him I spent 7 month without playing and you can't guarantee me playing time, so I want to leave on Loan.
Pep : imo you are commiting a mistake but its your choice and you still have 2 years contract with us after the loan.

• So you went to Sevilla for that reason ?

I wanted playing time, and a great coach with a team that can compete and I love CL. Pep made me in few time realise that I still can progress and how I can progress.

• How about Sao Paoli ?
  Well i fell in love with the coach, he trusted me from the start, the exigence asked of players on and outside the pitch is huge In Spain, i arrived late once on training I had to apologize to whole players and invite them to restaurant. I really feel good there, I forgot how much I love the Sun ( laughs ) the team is competitive and the coaching is great. ( note : sao Pauli assistant is Pep's mentor )

Have you any regret not joining Spain before since its more adapted to your Football ?

Yes and No, Liga is more technical and tactical, a little calmer than PL where its physical and intense. Iam a technical player but I played at Arsenal wich has a latine style of play then City with many Latin players as their key players, and regretting being there is insulting both teams I played in ( that I loved so much ) ( he didnt brought the financial aspect tho :D )

CAN you stay at Sevilla next year ?

I don't know I feel really good, Spain it's the best place to progress the exigence on the squad is huge and they keep you focused on career. But I'm under contract with City who pays half of my wages ( 10 mil per year ), i could make an effort on my salary to stay but don't ask me to cut it by half ( 5 mil ) Sevilla will need to make a financial effort then.

How did you find the league ? Is it easier ?

Nasri : if you play for Barca/Madrid you will have chances but the league surprised me, there is no easy team, we draw to Gijon and Las Palmas, we lost to Sociedad, we won vs Deportivo at injury time while we have a competitive team. I'm really surprised by the level specially the bottom teams level...
I thought Las Palmas was a plastic team, they are really strong, they drew us and took point from Madrid and Atletico, im impressed by Maza their midfielder never heard about him before.

How about the giants ?

We've played Atletico really impressive defensively, i didnt play Madrid yet but I have only bad memories from our losses with City, we played Barca that's scary their front 3 do not defend wait for the ball but once they have it and if Iniesta/Messi are in a good day, its mission impossible.

Messi or Ronaldo ?

Messi, really ? Yes in term of Pure Football and professionalism its Ronaldo, but Messi smells Football spaces dribbles....
I prefer Iniesta to both ( laughs )

Players who impressed you that you Never knew ?
As I said las Palmas mid, and in Sevilla I knew Nzonzi was a good player we played each other in PL, i will go for Vitolo, underrated player.....

• Where can I party in Sevilla ? Laughs
  I do not know well the City yet laughs, journalist : Marseille ? I do not party there. Journalist : well i wont ask you about Manchester wont party there ( laughs ) London then ? Depending on the day. - we are Monday : Nasri : the night circus is not bad at all laughs.

The video is in French I tried to translate the part that interests me as I could.

https://youtu.be/_7l1c2QoTDY

Kinda out of topic but

I thought Las Palmas was a plastic team, they are really stron

Did he really say that? That doesn't sound very professional.

Probably a mis-translation. I doubt he meant "plastic" in the sense English-speakers use the word.

@KTBFFH: Uhmn, for a football association that's their responsibility, they always want to boost local teams performance to achieve the best possible resulst. That's a country face and in this case English FA. It doesn't explain the point of our discussion here. If any country want to give fiancial incentives to any of their clubs, or national team to win a cup, does that mean because those team field weaker squads? Answer is: No!!! England has been performed badly in Europe, and that's the only channel to compare leagues.
You are taking examples of a few games which are far from sufficient to make those statements

Go ahead. Check the starting XI in the other EL games. Prove me wrong. Prove the article form theGuardian I linked wrong. I disagree with everything you said. It might be their problem yes, but clubs are run as companies with financial incentives, don't pretend anything else. Also, It does explain the point of our discussion here. since we are comparing the leagues, each to itself, to the best of our abilities. That is to say, if they field a STRONGER team in the domestic league, they're obviously better there. Soif we're trying to judge the quality shouldn't we then base it on their actual performance when they play their regular team? CL would have been a great comparison with H2H games. Unfortunately, bottom teams do not participate in it.

@tiki Well I spotted a liar. Also you seem a bit aggressive for no reason.

You claim that ~ Spanish bottom teams lack depth, otherwise they could beat English bottom teams consistently.... Bailly as an example costed 40mil, he was never a high tier defender in Spain so till the day PL keeps overpaying player playing that kind of style of Football, any modest budget in Europe will give them a fight as long as they have tactical awareness.

Last year you were praising the yellow submarines solid defense, especially after the 2-2 vs them. I believe you are just here to spit poison and downgrade the discussion no way you change your mind that quick seriously.

Oh and since you claim that City's B team can't win Celtic so did Barcelona A team vs a Real Sociedad.

I am pretty sure you can talk football but you simply too biased when it comes to BPL vs La Liga. That is why you spoke about Lodatz [a user who did not even join the conversation] and why you were so aggressive instead of calming yourself and answer properly.

Oh and a Barcelona fan calling BPL fans cows...

Good job tiki you just triggered a wonderful thread to our typical BPL vs La Liga that will prolly lead to insults.

@quickzy Yeah I just looked for the replay he said exactly we won vs Alaves at injury time, went to draw Gijon and I thought Las Palmas wont touch a ball, they had possession whole game something like this. They told him if scoring goals there was that easy he replied only if you play for Barca/real because you will get chances.

Other teams find it complicated like anywhere else, Costa ( 23 goals ) or Aguero ( 17 goals ) or even Griezmann ( 22 goals) all fought hard whole season to get them.

The interview lasted 1 hour wich is really usual in France, the liga part questions start at 39 mins to 45 if you can look for translation...

He was not their main CB Joze, If you knew a little about Villareal XI you will know it. And I threw an example from 100 ones, you buy a player from a supposed weak team/league by your logic 40 mil.
I remember I've said exactly : Jose Mourinho knows where to pick players, and I'm not praising Villarreal. Stats Stats Stats of last year put them as the best defensive club of top leagues, can you understand that I base my point on pitch results ? Just like 99% of the situation ?
Bailly first time I saw him was 2 years ago vs Madrid when Bruno got injured during the game, he did the job.
He only got playing time last season where he proved his worth as a rotation players, he was never an established Liga star he has like 30-40 games played at max. I be said he got potential but 40 mil ? WC holder Hummells was bought 37 mil. Just like Martial case with less than 20 games in ligue 1. Ridiculous amounts. Never doubted on potential tho.

Real Sociedad defeated Atletico Madrid 2-0, à draw against them with the poorest form is a good point. They were denied a valid goal.

You compare solid Sociedad at home to outdated tactics 100% British style Celtics who took 9-0 in agg. I can't remember the last year we took 3 points there. But basically I'm pretty sure you cannot give me 3 Sociedad player wich resume the situation of this debate.

Aggressive ? Maybe, but then someone starts his post treating me as irrational, you treat me as a liar I guess i can treat you as La liga BBVA ignorant wich i think you wont reject. So why debate on something you ignore ?

Gijon - Osasuna - Granada or Hull - Sunderland - Swansea ?

I watched them all play this season at least once, Gijon for me is the best team atm of the 6. Plays more as a team and got some technical and creative midlefield, could rank Hull second they have some players I really like, but concede cheap goals. For the weakest I'm hesitating between Osasuna And Sunderland, Osasuna clearly lacks depth, Sunderland playing style is horrible plus they do not play as a team and have selfish ligue 1 players like Ndong ( also brainless )

I would have loved an analyse by playing style coaches comparison or players strenght or weakness, we talk about budget... just shows me that people have opinions on something they completely ignore, so No need to go far. Want to discuss about liga next time ? Know the teams first...bye

...how did that escalate so quickly.

We were doing so good too

meanwhile...