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World Cup 2022 Discussion Thread
Emobot7 2 years ago
539 11439

A bit late for it but here a thread to discuss whats going on in the 2022 Qatar World Cup.

What already happened as of making this thread:

  • Qatar historical defeat as a WC host vs Ecuador
  • Senegal brave effort vs Netherland despite their 2-0 defeat
  • England 6-2 trashing or Iran
  • 1-1 game of two halve between USA and Wales
  • Argentina unpredictable defeat at the hand of Saudi Arabia

If you wanna discuss any of those match, or any of the upcoming games, this is the thread for it.

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Comments
expertfootball11 1 year ago
Real Madrid, France 64 2837

Can anyone provide some arguments as to the flop of Denmark, i'm really confused, they seemed to good on paper.

As for recent results, everyone who deserved to go through went through. I would have loved to see KSA qualifying

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DarthFooty 1 year ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 37 1110

This tournament is a bit upside-down. haha We all wondered how things would play out given the time of the cup and all, but wow, some traditional powerhouses are struggling, or are out already.

Such a fun tourney though.

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_Pelle_ 1 year ago
Paris Saint-Germain 156 6895

Japan beats Germany and Spain… but lost to Costa rica, who lost 7-0 to spain.

How crazy is that!!

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Footy_watch 1 year ago
Arsenal, Brazil 24 1874

If you lose a game in the world cup, you don't deserve to win it.

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Footy_watch 1 year ago
Arsenal, Brazil 24 1874

Lukaku was missing chances for fun. Belgium another team which wasted their talent.

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Emobot7 1 year ago
539 11439

@Algerino Yeah, they weren't a bad team at all. Just maybe lacking a bit in attacking departement.

@expertfootball Really can't tell, maybe they underestimated Tunisia and Australia, maybe there were too much optimist because of their performance in last Euro and in the Nation League. A lot of pundit and fans were expecting them which wasn't the case in the past, maybe this put extra-pressure on them.

@DarthFooty Yep, Germany (second time in a row) and Belgium (who were propably the second best team last WC) for example. I'm also dissapointed to see USA are the only team from North America to qualify. You guys are representing all of us now, do us proud, I believe they can beat Netherland if things goes their way. Come on USA!!!

Japan beats Germany and Spain… but lost to Costa rica, who lost 7-0 to spain.

Sound like rock paper scissor to me. But yeah, crazy performance from Japan, I think they really got this underdog spirit going for them, where they do better when you don't expect them that much.

If you lose a game in the world cup, you don't deserve to win it.

No, you can't see it like that, World Cup are a special competition and teams generally build up momentum through the group phase and they can somehow find hidden ressource the farther they go.

Lukaku was missing chances for fun. Belgium another team which wasted their talent.

Sad way for Belgium golden generation to end. I'd argue thats propably because of Martinez though, he should propably have trusted the younger generation, we seen great performance from a lot of the new, younger player, feel like he failed to mix the older and younger players well together and thats too bad.

Now, I'm just as shocked as you guys, especially about Germany being out and Japan topping their group. Its obviously very crazy. But as it was said before, this Japanese team giving a good game to Germany and Spain isn't a surprise, they are a team that are slowly but surely progressing as a group and giving hard time to even the biggest of team. You love to see it as a neutral.

Now, I'd like to take a break and just think about how similar the knockout phase could have been to that of 2018. If Belgium finish second of their group, they play Japan in the round of 16 and the winner propably take on Brazil (if they finish 1st of their group at least). Also, if Argentina finished second of their group, they would have played France. I mean, that didn't happen but it sure feel like it could have on the final day of some of those games.

Oh and Germany is out of the tournament in the group phase just like in 2018... I mean, I might not be a fan of the German team but that has to hurt. Glad Neuer and Muller already had a world cup cause this performance for a final dance would have been sad (I mean, its still is but at least, they alway have the 2014 victory to help alleviate the deception). I'll be wishing the best to the new generation from now on propably because even if I'm happy for Japan as a neutral, as a football fan, it feel like this Germany underperforming so much cannot be something that become the norm. Similar feeling for Italy which I really hope will qualify next WC.

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Emobot7 1 year ago
539 11439

Welp, Brazil and Portugal top their group but fail to win their last game (just like France), South Korea last minute win mean Uruguay are out despite their 2-0 win (they kinda made it easy not to feel too bad for them though with how they acted in that last game) and if Switzerland had scored 1 more goals, they would have propably topped their group.

Also, Aboubakar scoring a last minute winner against Brazil was epic, heck even the ref sending him off (second yellow for removing his shirt) was happy for him. What a glorious way to go for Cameroun, too bad we won't see more of them though in this World Cup.

Here a couple of fun fact and trivia about the group stage that are now over:

  • No team have made 9 points, meaning no team won all 3 of their games. Only teams who managed to make 7 points are Netherland, England and Morroco.

  • 120 goals were scored in total in the group stage, 43 were scored in the first half of games and the other 77 goals were in second halfs. This mean that nearly 65% of goals of the group phase were scored after half-time.

  • The 5 top scorers of the group phase with 3 goals each are Morata, Rashford, M'bappe, Gakpo and Enner Valencia. The first four are still in the competition and will have a chance to had to their tally. Worth noting M'bappe scored 3 of France 6 goals, Gakpo scored 3 of Netherland 5 and Ener Valencia scored 3 goal out of the 4 Ecuador did score over the competition.

  • Player with most assist is none other than Harry Kane with 3 assist.

  • In every game Germany played, both teams scored at least 1 goal.

  • The Player with the highest expected goals (without penality) was Kylian M'bappe with 2.4.

  • Players with the highest number of shot in total were M'bappe with 16, Musiala and Gnabbry with 12 and Messi with 11.
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expertfootball11 1 year ago
Real Madrid, France 64 2837

Congratulations to Cameroun for their historic win, IMO they deserved to go through, I loved their combative spirit.

Another big flop is serbia, I'm sorry but they could have EASILY secured 2 wins out of 3 had they had a proper defense. Their coach seems clueless, even when they briefly led 2-1 against the Swiss, he kept that dumb 3 line of defenders instead of 4. They made Shaqiri look like a god on the pitch when he is barely playing at all.

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_Pelle_ 1 year ago
Paris Saint-Germain 156 6895

If USA had the same commitment to ”soccer” like they have to ”football” they would easily be a constant top ten on FiFA ranking and already have a WC trophy. Just look at their female NT.

Anyway congrats to the Netherlands 💪

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Emobot7 1 year ago
539 11439

@Pelle Eh, actually, I'd disagree with your statement, its not so much that USA doesn't care and commit to football, its just that they have been only commiting to it recently and that they are still far behind compared to other NT. Their female NT is another talk completely but I'd argue its more of a direct results of other great nations not focusing as much on women football.

So, I haven't been able to watch much game this week-end but honestly, when you look at the advanced stat, one of the big difference between big teams and underdog is the finishing. Team like France, England and Netherland are just really clinical. Argentina were pherhap the only team which stat made it look like they dominated Australia (I mean, no irrespect to Australia but they weren't expected and for a reason) and they were the team who won by the smallest goal difference.

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SunFlash 1 year ago Edited
USA 19 3260

@Emo

As someone who lived in the USA for the first decade and a half of my life, I'm actually with Pelle on this one. Depending on the area of the country you are in, it's either basketball (Northeast), football (south, midwest, west), or baseball (rural areas in general), that get the best athletes. Honorary mention to hockey in some Northern states like Wisconsin or Michigan. Soccer still isn't "cool" per se, or at least it wasn't a decade ago when I was in school there. Even the makeup of the USMNT suggests this, with most of the players either children of immigrants or had lived overseas in American military bases.

Whereas for girls, playing soccer was the sh*t, they got all the best athletes. Softball retained a few in my town specifically, and basketball ate the tall ones, but by and large the best female athletes were playing soccer and were lauded for it in a way that boys in the US just are not.

Central/South American immigrants in general have spurred on the development of soccer in the USA (keep in mind just how much of our population are immigrants, 46M of first-generation immigrants alone would blow tiny European minds), but it still has not penetrated the popular consciousness.

EDIT: Just to add onto this, we had a bit of a transfer in the last two decades from baseball (America's game!) to football, with big name guys who were drafted into both leagues Russel Wilson, Kyler Murray, Tom Brady, etc - choosing a career in football over baseball. Baseball purists have pointed to this as the decline of baseball, but for this forum's purposes it highlights something different. Our best athletes have to choose which sport they want to perform in. This choice simply does not exist in major European soccer countries like Germany, Spain, or the UK. If you offer any athlete in these countries a career in soccer vs. any other sport, they'll choose soccer 100% of the time. In the US, you have four objectively better choices before you even get to soccer.

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  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

@Emo

As someone who lived in the USA for the first decade and a half of my life, I'm actually with Pelle on this one. Depending on the area of the country you are in, it's either basketball (Northeast), football (south, midwest, west), or baseball (rural areas in general), that get the best athletes. Honorary mention to hockey in some Northern states like Wisconsin or Michigan. Soccer still isn't "cool" per se, or at least it wasn't a decade ago when I was in school there. Even the makeup of the USMNT suggests this, with most of the players either children of immigrants or had lived overseas in American military bases.

Whereas for girls, playing soccer was the sh*t, they got all the best athletes. Softball retained a few in my town specifically, and basketball ate the tall ones, but by and large the best female athletes were playing soccer and were lauded for it in a way that boys in the US just are not.

Central/South American immigrants in general have spurred on the development of soccer in the USA (keep in mind just how much of our population are immigrants, 46M of first-generation immigrants alone would blow tiny European minds), but it still has not penetrated the popular consciousness.

DarthFooty 1 year ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 37 1110

100% agree with Sun and Pelle. As much as I would love to say that football (soccer) has gained a lot of ground here in the USA, it really hasn't. I grew up in a border city in Texas, where American Football is king. Had it not been the fact that I was raised through military parents, so we moved around a lot, or that this border city touched Mexico, I might not have played footy much at all.

Here, once you get to middle school, soccer is not the popular sport anymore and you are almost made fun of by your peers. In high school, sure it's ok to play footy, but usually, that's because you weren't good enough to do the other sports. Had I not run track, I would have been athletically ostracized in high school.

Add in you have to pay good amounts of money to play organized soccer here. Clubs mean well, and some coaches do try to teach, but it's a business at the end of the day, and many poor kids can't afford to play on teams.

Soccer is only alive because of immigrants. Period. Money is not made in footy, you are not viewed as successful in footy (in the USA anyways), and most of the top athletes pick those other major sports for their efforts at fame and fortune.

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Emobot7 1 year ago
539 11439

@Sunflash Nothing greater than seeing you appear out of nowhere to prove me wrong mate. But joking aside, I'm certainly not the best placed to know about how much USA care about 'soccer' so I'll trust you and Darth on this one.

My true curiosity is, would USA standing be similar to football greatest if the US actually cared about it as much as it other sports? I mean, sure, they do dominate certain sport they care about but mostly only those no other major country care about. Like, if basketball was as popular as football in Spain, surely what @Pelle said would also be true about Spain in term of basketball?

What I'm trying to say is, maybe we are actually overating USA capacity of making competitive team in sports because they are best in a handfull of sport, the reason for that being they are the only one caring so much about said sport so strongly and investing so much in it. Ironically, one of the reason very few compete with USA in those sport might propably be because football is so popular in other country that those could develop enough to rival USA in said sport are propably already focusing most of their ressource on football.

Sorry, what I'm saying might sound a bit confusing, simply put, I wonder if USA isn't actually so good at the sport they play because other top sport country are focusing on other sports, like football for example. So would they actually be so good if they cared about 'soccer'? Or would they be just another strong team fighting it out with other strong nation without really dominating that much?

Anyway, dropping the whole USA bussiness, I'd like to say Brazil looked really good, I'm seriously expecting them to make the semi and see no reason why they couldn't make it to the final. Glad to see Neymar back from injury and in good form.

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SunFlash 1 year ago
USA 19 3260

I'm not sure if I can answer that question objectively Emo. My entire life (and for my parent's and grandparent's entire lives tbh) if America as a country decided it wanted to do something it just threw money at it until it worked or we became enamoured with something else. Sport was no exception, and Olympic sports that used to be dominated by certain countries now have Americans just popping up everywhere. Pick any sport your country focuses on, and odds are there's an American placing near the top of it. We have half the population of the entire European continent (including Russia) and 2/3rds of it excluding Russia, and almost double the nominal GDP of the European Union. One state alone (California) would be the 4th largest economy on Earth if it was its own country. Combine that population and the amount of money involved and give it a focus? Hard to imagine it not making an impact. Even thinking about countries such as China who throw money around (e.g. Chinese Super League), Americans are significantly better educated and have the systems and institutions in place to do things that countries like China cannot.

I've spent my whole life living with American exceptionalism and it clouds my perspective. Even when I lived in Europe, I had Belgians tell me unironically to my face that Americans had no culture, all while speaking in English learned through American media, wearing jeans, and eating US fast food...at that exact moment. It's so domineering that people utterly take it for granted. As a result, I think if I were to tell you that if the USA actually made an effort to win a World Cup, they would...is to be taken with a grain of salt. But I do believe that.

And hahaha I haven't done that much Emo, you've become quite knowledgeable over the years.

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Emobot7 1 year ago
539 11439

I've spent my whole life living with American exceptionalism and it clouds my perspective. Even when I lived in Europe, I had Belgians tell me unironically to my face that Americans had no culture, all while speaking in English learned through American media, wearing jeans, and eating US fast food...at that exact moment. It's so domineering that people utterly take it for granted. As a result, I think if I were to tell you that if the USA actually made an effort to win a World Cup, they would...is to be taken with a grain of salt. But I do believe that.

Thats actually a very good point, I kinda hope America do start investing seriously in 'Soccer' to see the results. I'd be happy for a North American country to dominate or at least to compete against the other big football nation. I certainly think their performance in this world cup and them being part of the hosting countries for the next one should do a very good work of promoting the sport domestically, I hope so at least.

And hahaha I haven't done that much Emo, you've become quite knowledgeable over the years.

You're flattering me but truth is, while I do feel like I matured in my football knowledge in recent years, I fear I have still much to learn. I'm sure you know a lot more and have a much greater understanding of the tactical nature of the sport compared to me. Which is why I'm alway pleased to read you when you take the time to share with us on the forum. :D

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DarthFooty 1 year ago Edited
Queens Park Rangers, United States 37 1110

If the USA fully decided to win a World Cup, I have no doubt it would happen. Some of that is American ignorance/arrogance, yes, but I look at it mathematically as well. Once funding goes to the right groups, it will attract more interest. The USA has a very large population, so you do the math! It would only be a matter of time before enough top athletes work into the program and become established.

As for culture or the USA style of play, well, you have immigrants to thank for that. Because we have so many different (insert nationality)-Americans, we will always have a different style and image produced on the pitch. The coach, who will also be a mixed American, will have a strong influence, sure, but the players themselves, unless brought through entirely under that one manager's system, will have a blend of their own styles. Players are also influenced by the leagues they play in or the academies they come through.

Until the USA fully commits, stops that pay-to-play bullsh*t, and put money into backing league play and development across the board, we will always be that team that can get to the knockout round, but be lucky at anything past the quarterfinals.

2026 will be a HUGE opportunity for the USA to really show what it's made of. Let's see what they do! Canada as well, given how well they showed in this cup.

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  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

If the USA fully decided to win a World Cup, I have no doubt it would happen. Some of that is American ignorance, yes, but I look at it mathematically as well. Once funding goes to the right groups, it will attract more interest. The USA has a very large population, so you do the math! It would only be a matter of time before enough top athletes work into the program and become established.

As for culture or the USA style of play, well, you have immigrants to thank for that. Because we have so many different (insert nationality)-Americans, we will always have a different style and image produced on the pitch. The coach, who will also be a mixed American, will have a strong influence, sure, but the players themselves, unless brought through entirely under that one manager's system, will have a blend of their own styles. Players are also influenced by the leagues they play in or the academies they come through.

Until the USA fully commits, stops that pay-to-play bullsh*t, and put money into backing league play and development across the board, we will always be that team that can get to the knockout round, but be lucky at anything past the quarterfinals.

2026 will be a HUGE opportunity for the USA to really show what it's made of. Let's see what they do! Canada as well, given how well they showed in this cup.

_Pelle_ 1 year ago
Paris Saint-Germain 156 6895

Spain will never learn. Their ”tiki taka” is outdated and passing around forever wont translate into wins.

Way to go Morocco💪

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DarthFooty 1 year ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 37 1110

Loved seeing Morocco win.

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Footy_watch 1 year ago
Arsenal, Brazil 24 1874

Expected Morocco to go through, Spain are not good in the final third.

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kirsi16 1 year ago
Sao Paulo, Brazil 2 96

Morocco kinda gave a lesson on how to "park a bus". When you face a superior team, you don't just defend and do nothing. You attack, you stay aggressive, you counter, you construct starting from your goalie. Morocco had the same number of shots on goal as Spain. Yeah they did not result in goal, but you pressure your opponent a lot.

If you look at Morocco closely, they had less possession than every single adversary in this WC: Spain, Croatia, Belgium, Canada. They were first in their group anyways.

The 4-1-4-1 closing up on adversary's spaces, and Ziyech coming back and help form a line of 5, is not something new. Japan and Saudi Arabia played like this with some success. Morocco inmediately counters using Boufal (left) and Ziyech (right) and crosses to whoever arrives later at the center. Again this is not something new.

What I like is that Morocco is willing to risk his chances. Everyone makes risky passes, even the goalie! The defense lines actively close in. They just go for it and try to create chances even when there is none, rather than "construct until you find a breach". If you lose possession, then be it. It's good to see more of this sort of direct football.

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