In your opinion, wich teams are first class right now? In terms of firepower, respect...etc
The current team form, not talking about history...
And second class
If you want more...

Just to know.
You know, those people who like to analyze things we like...

Who else here?

My list:

Top teams

Fc Bayern
Juventus
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Chelsea

Second

Manchester city
Arsenal
Atlético de Madrid
Sevilla
Wolfsburg
Borussia dortmund
Roma
PSG

Third
Liverpool
Manchester united
Valencia
Athletic bilbao
Bayer leverkusen
Lazio
Lyon
Marseille

Fourth
Internazionale (unfortunately)...
Milan (unfortunately)...

In your opinion, wich teams are first class right now? In terms of firepower, respect...etc
The current team form, not talking about history...
And second class
If you want more...

Just to know.
You know, those people who like to analyze things we like...

Who else here?

My list:

Top teams

Fc Bayern
Juventus
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Chelsea

Second

Manchester city
Arsenal
Atlético de Madrid
Sevilla
Wolfsburg
Borussia dortmund
Roma
PSG

Third

Liverpool
Manchester united
Valencia
Athletic bilbao
Bayer leverkusen
Lazio
Lyon
Marseille

Fourth

Internazionale (unfortunately)...
Milan (unfortunately)...

@Dynastian: Arjen Robben would've run our defense in circles? Didn't we play two highly competitive games two years back with even a weaker defense than the one we have now? Now we have Danilo and an older, more mature Varane. Remember the score back then? 5 - 0 agg. What makes you think Robben would have destroyed us, especially considering that two years ago he was younger and was in a really really good form? While on the opposite side of the spectrum, Ronaldo scored two and Benzema scored one.You don't really sound like a Real Madrid fan to me, not with that negativity concerning the team.And Guardiola, really? I'm sorry, I just couldn't help but laugh at that statement. This guy is probably the most overrated manager out there. He won a whole lotta titles with Barcelona, sure, but I don't think any manager would've done any worse. Even Vicente Del Bosque, without Messi, won back to back Euros and a World Cup with a team comprised of the same core players as the 2009 Barcelona.He arrives in Bayern, a treble winning team that just added even more quality to their squad and they lose 5-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid. Come next season, they get humiliated by Barcelona at the same stage. This guy is a mediocre manager at best, one that was the result of a very very good Barcelona squad (possibly the best ever Barca team). I bet his entire tactics consisted of.. 'Give the ball to Messi, if he's not available, give it Xavi or Iniesta. They'll figure it out'. lol.Not to mention, oh, when things start to go bad.. Attack the ref as a whole and try to get a penalty or one of them sent off. (I'm thinking of you, Dani Alves & Bisquets). I do apologize but I simply cannot respect anyone who is of the opinion that Guardiola is some revolutionary coach. He's not. Give the team he had ANY system, and they'll end up winning. They were simply that good.@Tiki:You don't know how Banitez will play the team, you do not know what/if we will have difficulties against any type of opponents. Carlo was an excellent man manager but a terrible tactician which is why we struggled so much against top sides. Banitez on the other hand is a good tactician but not the best man manager. If we do have problems, it will not be due to his tactics but rather with his handling of the egos in the dressing room. On top of that, we're almost certain to reach at least semis in the Champions League and with his management - I am sure we will do much better than last season against top sides.Even though Madrid was a 'stable' team, you have to remember that we had just come off winning the Champions League and Copa Del Rey. It's a lot more difficult to retain trophies than it is to win them. It has been that way for centuries. The hunger is satiated and the team just does not try as hard whereas Barcelona had a terrible season before last and they were hungry - which is actually the case now for Real Madrid.I will honestly be surprised if Barcelona wins a single trophy this year. The fact is that they simply do not have a top top midfield or defense. Their front three carried the team last year, and I don't think they'll be able to repeat that feat.

@Dynastian: Arjen Robben would've run our defense in circles? Didn't we play two highly competitive games two years back with even a weaker defense than the one we have now? Now we have Danilo and an older, more mature Varane. Remember the score back then? 5 - 0 agg. What makes you think Robben would have destroyed us, especially considering that two years ago he was younger and was in a really really good form? While on the opposite side of the spectrum, Ronaldo scored two and Benzema scored one.

You don't really sound like a Real Madrid fan to me, not with that negativity concerning the team.

And Guardiola, really? I'm sorry, I just couldn't help but laugh at that statement. This guy is probably the most overrated manager out there. He won a whole lotta titles with Barcelona, sure, but I don't think any manager would've done any worse. Even Vicente Del Bosque, without Messi, won back to back Euros and a World Cup with a team comprised of the same core players as the 2009 Barcelona.

He arrives in Bayern, a treble winning team that just added even more quality to their squad and they lose 5-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid. Come next season, they get humiliated by Barcelona at the same stage. This guy is a mediocre manager at best, one that was the result of a very very good Barcelona squad (possibly the best ever Barca team). I bet his entire tactics consisted of.. 'Give the ball to Messi, if he's not available, give it Xavi or Iniesta. They'll figure it out'. lol.

Not to mention, oh, when things start to go bad.. Attack the ref as a whole and try to get a penalty or one of them sent off. (I'm thinking of you, Dani Alves & Bisquets). I do apologize but I simply cannot respect anyone who is of the opinion that Guardiola is some revolutionary coach. He's not. Give the team he had ANY system, and they'll end up winning. They were simply that good.

@Tiki:
You don't know how Banitez will play the team, you do not know what/if we will have difficulties against any type of opponents. Carlo was an excellent man manager but a terrible tactician which is why we struggled so much against top sides. Banitez on the other hand is a good tactician but not the best man manager. If we do have problems, it will not be due to his tactics but rather with his handling of the egos in the dressing room. On top of that, we're almost certain to reach at least semis in the Champions League and with his management - I am sure we will do much better than last season against top sides.

Even though Madrid was a 'stable' team, you have to remember that we had just come off winning the Champions League and Copa Del Rey. It's a lot more difficult to retain trophies than it is to win them. It has been that way for centuries. The hunger is satiated and the team just does not try as hard whereas Barcelona had a terrible season before last and they were hungry - which is actually the case now for Real Madrid.

I will honestly be surprised if Barcelona wins a single trophy this year. The fact is that they simply do not have a top top midfield or defense. Their front three carried the team last year, and I don't think they'll be able to repeat that feat.

@Sun: I agree with most of what you said. I'm glad there are at least 'some' people in this place that have a good understanding of the game and the state of clubs.

@Dynastian: Arjen Robben would've run our defense in circles? Didn't we play two highly competitive games two years back with even a weaker defense than the one we have now? Now we have Danilo and an older, more mature Varane. Remember the score back then? 5 - 0 agg. What makes you think Robben would have destroyed us, especially considering that two years ago he was younger and was in a really really good form? While on the opposite side of the spectrum, Ronaldo scored two and Benzema scored one.

You don't really sound like a Real Madrid fan to me, not with that negativity concerning the team.

And Guardiola, really? I'm sorry, I just couldn't help but laugh at that statement. This guy is probably the most overrated manager out there. He won a whole lotta titles with Barcelona, sure, but I don't think any manager would've done any worse. Even Vicente Del Bosque, without Messi, won back to back Euros and a World Cup with a team comprised of the same core players as the 2009 Barcelona.

He arrives in Bayern, a treble winning team that just added even more quality to their squad and they lose 5-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid. Come next season, they get humiliated by Barcelona at the same stage. This guy is a mediocre manager at best, one that was the result of a very very good Barcelona squad (possibly the best ever Barca team). I bet his entire tactics consisted of.. 'Give the ball to Messi, if he's not available, give it Xavi or Iniesta. They'll figure it out'. lol.

Not to mention, oh, when things start to go bad.. Attack the ref as a whole and try to get a penalty or one of them sent off. (I'm thinking of you, Dani Alves & Bisquets). I do apologize but I simply cannot respect anyone who is of the opinion that Guardiola is some revolutionary coach. He's not. Give the team he had ANY system, and they'll end up winning. They were simply that good.

And please do yourself a favor and not bring up the amount of trophies Guardiola has won. Has he ever managed a team that hasn't been the favorites to win a Champions League or at least play the final? Taking into consideration the squads he's had at his disposal, he couldn't have done any worse.

@Tiki:
You don't know how Banitez will play the team, you do not know what/if we will have difficulties against any type of opponents. Carlo was an excellent man manager but a terrible tactician which is why we struggled so much against top sides. Banitez on the other hand is a good tactician but not the best man manager. If we do have problems, it will not be due to his tactics but rather with his handling of the egos in the dressing room. On top of that, we're almost certain to reach at least semis in the Champions League and with his management - I am sure we will do much better than last season against top sides.

Even though Madrid was a 'stable' team, you have to remember that we had just come off winning the Champions League and Copa Del Rey. It's a lot more difficult to retain trophies than it is to win them. It has been that way for centuries. The hunger is satiated and the team just does not try as hard whereas Barcelona had a terrible season before last and they were hungry - which is actually the case now for Real Madrid.

I will honestly be surprised if Barcelona wins a single trophy this year. The fact is that they simply do not have a top top midfield or defense. Their front three carried the team last year, and I don't think they'll be able to repeat that feat.

@Sun: I agree with most of what you said. I'm glad there are at least 'some' people in this place that have a good understanding of the game and the state of clubs.

@Amerr: saying Carlo not a good tactician is too harsh. He's brilliant in a lot of cases, read the game extremely well just as good as any top manager out there. All top coach would struggle against each other because they are all relatively good.

Carlo has made one big mistake last year though: the rotation. It was horrible. And he was very very unlucky that Modric got injured. The guy is your CORE KEY player, an unsung hero in every way. Without him, Ronaldo and especial Benzema looked mediocre in front of top defenders... they just dont have the space, and the team just doesn't flow the way they supposed to.

As for Pep, I disagree too. Pep is definitely not overrated. He's among the best out there. Sure, Bayern was the champ before that, but this is what football is all about, the is no definite king, things on paper won't match reality. Not to mention, other team will take extreme precaution against BM, BM's players might loose their motivation after the winning, the enthusiasm couldn't be the same. The CL's curse is there for a reason.

I agree that PEP is NOT a **revolutionary coach**. Cruyf set up that system, Pep advanced it. He executed it brilliantly, game in game out. That's the difficult part. Got the players on the style the rythm that worked so well for a long period of time is not walking in the park, despite all the super stars you have.

Spain inherited that rythm, and their coach did a great job to keep that too. No doubt.

I refuse to take ANY CREDIT away from PEP.

@Amerr: saying Carlo not a good tactician is too harsh. He's brilliant in a lot of cases, read the game extremely well just as good as any top managers out there. All top coaches would struggle against each other because they are all relatively good.

Carlo has made one big mistake last year though: the rotation. It was horrible. And he was very very unlucky that Modric got injured. The guy is your CORE KEY player, an unsung hero in every way. Without him, Ronaldo and especial Benzema looked mediocre in front of top defenders... they just dont have the space, and the team just doesn't flow the way they supposed to.

As for Pep, I disagree too. Pep is definitely not overrated. He's among the best out there. Sure, Bayern was the champ before that, but this is what football is all about, the is no definite king, things on paper won't match reality. Not to mention, other team will take extreme precaution against BM, BM's players might loose their motivation after the winning, the enthusiasm couldn't be the same. The CL's curse is there for a reason.

I agree that PEP is NOT a **revolutionary coach**. Cruyf set up that system, Pep advanced it. He executed it brilliantly, game in game out. That's the difficult part. Got the players on the style the rythm that worked so well for a long period of time is not walking in the park, despite all the super stars you have.

Spain inherited that rythm, and their coach did a great job to keep that too. No doubt.

I refuse to take ANY CREDIT away from PEP.

Lol you are in permanent denial or complete bias, Barça had a terrible season ??? Defeated Your beloved Madrid twice in both Clasicos home and away, 2-0 in Camp Nou, 3-4 in Bernabeu. Destroyed City home and away before Valdes got injured and finishing the season with Pinto, only lost to Atletico in CL who would have won CL if they didnt got Turan and Costa injured or a last minute Ramos equalizer. And they were one goal far from lifting the league.

Barça terrible season as you say just look like to Madrid actual season, so one sided way of analyzing is possible the other way.
I can also say that Madrid was poor vs top teams of Spain, took 0 pts against Barça and an embarassing 0 pts against Atletico. So give credit to both teams when they achieve and stop looking for excuses each time Madrid is trophyless.... Any team in the world has their excuse when they fail to lift trophies, one sided arguments are easy to destroy.

Lol you are in permanent denial or complete bias, Barça had a terrible season ??? Defeated Your beloved Madrid twice in both Clasicos home and away, 2-0 in Camp Nou, 3-4 in Bernabeu. Destroyed City home and away before Valdes got injured and finishing the season with Pinto, only lost to Atletico in CL who would have won CL if they didnt got Turan and Costa injured or a last minute Ramos equalizer. And they were one goal far from lifting the league.

Barça terrible season as you say just look like to Madrid actual season, so one sided way of analyzing is possible the other way.
I can also say that Madrid was poor vs top teams of Spain, took 0 pts against Barça and an embarassing 0 pts against Atletico. So give credit to both teams when they achieve and stop looking for excuses each time Madrid is trophyless.... Any team in the world has their excuse when they fail to lift trophies, one sided arguments are easy to destroy.

Since you love this kind of arguments, taste your own medecine : '' IF Atletico played Madrid in CL final before playing Barça in the League game decider ( 3 days gap not enough to recover ), Atletico would be Europeen champions and Barça would be Liga champions, and your amazing season would just have been another flop season ''

Football is about details, enjoy the win, ACCEPT THE LOST and RESPECT THE WINNER.

Lol you are in complete bias, Barça had a terrible season ??? Defeated Your beloved Madrid twice in both Clasicos home and away, 2-0 in Camp Nou, 3-4 in Bernabeu. Destroyed City home and away before Valdes got injured and finishing the season with Pinto, only lost to Atletico in CL who would have won CL if they didnt got Turan and Costa injured or a last minute Ramos equalizer. And they were one goal far from lifting the league.

Barça terrible season as you say just look like to Madrid actual season, so one sided way of analyzing is possible the other way.
I can also say that Madrid was poor vs top teams of Spain, took 0 pts against Barça and an embarassing 0 pts against Atletico. So give credit to both teams when they achieve and stop looking for excuses each time Madrid is trophyless.... Any team in the world has their excuse when they fail to lift trophies, one sided arguments are easy to destroy.

Since you love this kind of arguments, taste your own medecine : '' IF Atletico played Madrid in CL final before playing Barça in the League game decider ( 3 days gap not enough to recover ), Atletico would be Europeen champions and Barça would be Liga champions, and your amazing season would just have been another flop season ''

Football is about details, enjoy the win, ACCEPT THE LOST and RESPECT THE WINNER.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (was is a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal grounding with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (was is a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (was is a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

Further, had it not been for Casillas ridiculous mistake, they wouldn't have even scored. You watched the game, right? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Athletico had deserved to win? They didn't play like Champions. They parked the bus for the entirety of the game. It would have been a terrible outcome had they walked away with the trophy.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.

Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (was is a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

Further, had it not been for Casillas ridiculous mistake, they wouldn't have even scored. You watched the game, right? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Athletico had deserved to win? They didn't play like Champions. They parked the bus for the entirety of the game. It would have been a terrible outcome had they walked away with the trophy.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.

Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (was is a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

Further, had it not been for Casillas ridiculous mistake, they wouldn't have even scored. You watched the game, right? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Athletico had deserved to win? They didn't play like Champions. They parked the bus for the entirety of the game. It would have been a terrible outcome had they walked away with the trophy.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@tuan: I'll respond to you later.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.

Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

Further, had it not been for Casillas ridiculous mistake, they wouldn't have even scored. You watched the game, right? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Athletico had deserved to win? They didn't play like Champions. They parked the bus for the entirety of the game. It would have been a terrible outcome had they walked away with the trophy.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. They were in fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@tuan: I'll respond to you later.

@Tiki Taka: Considering the squad Barcelona had, winning 0 trophies in any season is considered a terrible season regardless how many great individual games the team may have played. In fact, both of these teams are expected to play such high quality games every season. The standard that these two teams have each season in and out are much higher than other teams excluding perhaps Bayern Munich.

Saying that Barca had a terrible season should be considered a compliment, not an insult.

Athletico did have a player injured but Real Madrid also had Xabi Alonso, who was as critical to the team as Modric has grown to become in Real Madrid recently, booked and not allowed to play. If we're going to go that route, it's not crazy to assume that had Xabi played, we would've won that game without fuss. With him in the team, we demolished Bayern Munich (a significantly stronger side) 4-0 in Munich.

Further, had it not been for Casillas ridiculous mistake, they wouldn't have even scored. You watched the game, right? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Athletico had deserved to win? They didn't play like Champions. They parked the bus for the entirety of the game. It would have been a terrible outcome had they walked away with the trophy.

You're completely taking what I said the wrong way. As I previously said, even though I detest Barcelona, I respect them as a team and club. They have done amazing things this last decade and for once are on the equal ground with Madrid. TIn fact times they had taken over completely in the last decade.

@tuan: I'll respond to you later.

I understand your actual frustration, but wait for Madrid to get some success before acting as a usual Spanish Madridista.
Ancelotti >>>>>>>>>> Benitez and you are yet to dicover this truth. Madrid just sacked the one who gave them the CL after years of failures, he isnt responsible for injuries...
Madridistas wants the big scores, the winning streak, the way of playing, and NO INJURIES ? I think those who criticize Ancelotti are a sick as their Perez president, and they will figure out why this season :)

Stay with us a little this year...

I just saw your '' for once like Madrid '' For once ? Really ?

Your History is linked to 2 facts that you seem to ignore : Franco Era, Europeen cup start, when it was a friendly cup at the begining, just like Audi cup or Intercontinental.

I give you some History lessons because i cant stand the Madridistas arrogance, the first supposedly '' plastic CL ever played '' They called the champions of Europeen leagues. Barça were the Liga holders and refused to participate to such an insignificant cup at that moment to play copa cataluna more important in their eyes...

Considering what Barça faced in Franco era, refrees bias and 10 years transfer ban, just keep calm about the 2 cubs History, its not the appropriate forum imo to bring this special History between the 2 clubs.

The come back Barça did to catch up the money, the domestic Spanish market owned by Madrid, the History where a big pourcentage was given by a dictator and a stolen transfer...

Before Franco, the best teams in Spain were Bilbao and Barcelona, after Franco there was Crujf, in Madrid '' La quinta del buitre '' of Butrageno and co is the only era i respect in your beloved team.

So if you want to bring History, open a thread and lets discuss it. You seem to ignore what is Barça about, what is to be a Barça fan for a native and the whole political aspects linked to Football in Spain where shutting down Barça was a way to shut Catalan pride down for the most important person in Madrid History : General Franco.

@SunFlash
i do respect your opinions, but i have to make a point about what follows:"In Sir Alex's biography, he references match-fixing being so common in Italy that several Italians could not believe that it was not commonplace in England."

i guess you meant this quote:
"In England you think none of your games are bent. Here we assume all ours are."

^that's what he was told when he was in Italy during a match. and has a very different meaning, because it is just telling you that "all the places are the same". basically. it would be very naive to believe that there is no corruption in English or European football. it's just that, paradoxically, in Italy Justice has more tools to expose this kind of facts, and so they do get exposed.
from The Guardian:
"But we should also take one other key factor into consideration: the power and independence of the Italian judiciary. Italian magistrates have the ability to set up phone taps and run long investigations into scandals of this kind. They are also proactive in seeking out possible wrongdoing and can order arrests and offer deals to those who confess. British police, for example, are much weaker and less interested in football-linked corruption. Illegal betting is an issue for every sport in today's globalised world, and has been for many years."

source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/29/is-italian-football-more-corrupt

that said, shall we mention the numerous scandals which involved German football, or the fact that Germany cheated to host the WC in 2006?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesliga_scandal\_(2005)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_European_football_betting_scandal
  - http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/02/05/match-fixing-suspicions-provide-german-footballs-biggest-battle-yet/
• http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/fifa-corruption-scandal-germany-sent-saudi-arabia-weapons-in-exchange-for-support-of-their-bid-to-host-the-2006-world-cup-10301221.html

and there's much more on the internet. i hate corruption me too, but if i had to go by your rationale, then i'd have to quit football as a whole. Fergie loved Italian football btw.

@SunFlash
i do respect your opinions, but i have to make a point about what follows:
"In Sir Alex's biography, he references match-fixing being so common in Italy that several Italians could not believe that it was not commonplace in England."

i guess you meant this quote:
"In England you think none of your games are bent. Here we assume all ours are."

^that's what he was told when he was in Italy during a match. and has a very different meaning, because it is just telling you that "all the places are the same". basically. it would be very naive to believe that there is no corruption in English or European football. it's just that, paradoxically, in Italy Justice has more tools to expose this kind of facts, and so they do get exposed. from The Guardian:

"But we should also take one other key factor into consideration: the power and independence of the Italian judiciary. Italian magistrates have the ability to set up phone taps and run long investigations into scandals of this kind. They are also proactive in seeking out possible wrongdoing and can order arrests and offer deals to those who confess. British police, for example, are much weaker and less interested in football-linked corruption. Illegal betting is an issue for every sport in today's globalised world, and has been for many years."

source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/29/is-italian-football-more-corrupt

that said, shall we mention the numerous scandals which involved German football, or the fact that Germany cheated to host the WC in 2006?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesliga_scandal\_(2005)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_European_football_betting_scandal
  - http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/02/05/match-fixing-suspicions-provide-german-footballs-biggest-battle-yet/
• http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/fifa-corruption-scandal-germany-sent-saudi-arabia-weapons-in-exchange-for-support-of-their-bid-to-host-the-2006-world-cup-10301221.html

and there's much more on the internet. i hate corruption me too, but if i had to go by your rationale, then i'd have to quit football as a whole. Fergie loved Italian football btw.

@SunFlash
i do respect your opinions, but i have to make a point about what follows:
"In Sir Alex's biography, he references match-fixing being so common in Italy that several Italians could not believe that it was not commonplace in England."

i guess you meant this quote:
"In England you think none of your games are bent. Here we assume all ours are."

^that's what he was told when he was in Italy during a match. and has a very different meaning, because it is just telling you that "all the places are the same". basically. it would be very naive to believe that there is no corruption in English or European football. it's just that, paradoxically, in Italy Justice has more tools to expose this kind of facts, and so they do get exposed. from The Guardian:

"But we should also take one other key factor into consideration: the power and independence of the Italian judiciary. Italian magistrates have the ability to set up phone taps and run long investigations into scandals of this kind. They are also proactive in seeking out possible wrongdoing and can order arrests and offer deals to those who confess. British police, for example, are much weaker and less interested in football-linked corruption. Illegal betting is an issue for every sport in today's globalised world, and has been for many years."

source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/29/is-italian-football-more-corrupt

that said, shall we mention the numerous scandals which involved German football, or the fact that Germany cheated to host the WC in 2006?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesliga_scandal\_(2005)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_European_football_betting_scandal
  - http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/02/05/match-fixing-suspicions-provide-german-footballs-biggest-battle-yet/
• http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/fifa-corruption-scandal-germany-sent-saudi-arabia-weapons-in-exchange-for-support-of-their-bid-to-host-the-2006-world-cup-10301221.html

and there's much more on the internet. time to quite BuLi too? i hate corruption me too, but if i had to go by your rationale, then i'd have to quit football as a whole. Fergie loved Italian football btw.