Forum
{{ post.commentCount }}

Didn't find anything.

{{ searchResult.errors[0] }}

EURO 2021 winner
_Pelle_ 5 months ago
Paris Saint-Germain 125 6444

Which team do you think will win it all?

0
Comments
tuan_jinn 4 months ago Edited
Manchester United, Netherlands 198 6885

Southgate has made England the solid team

More people saying that these days, and I can not disagree more.

England had a relatively easier path compare to all other team, including the teams they faced, and aged Germany with the last-days-stubborn coach Low... 6/7 games played at home.

And probably the biggest generation of stars we have ever seen England've had, at their prime (I rate these much higher than the Gerrard, Lampard time, cuz in CL, England teams also bossed it. Domestically they are coached by a few best coaches in the world right now.

Until then, I was not impressed at all by the way England played.

Need I say more about the final? Where Italy (a team was completely dominated by Spain in the mid), out classed England from 25 mins onward, without any proper tactic adaption from Southgate? And the pens-substituation were the worst one I have seen in the history of football....

I dont blame the lads who missed the pens, they weren't even warm, their feet-ball feeling of 2 mins were NOTHING.

Southgate is mediocre and will drag down this best generation of footballer of England

1
  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

Southgate has made England the solid team

More people saying that these days, and I can not disagree more.

England had a relatively easier path compare to all other team, including the teams they faced, and aged Germany with the last-days-stubborn coach Low... 6/7 games played at home.

And probably the biggest generation of stars we have ever seen England've had, at their prime (I rate these much higher than the Gerrard, Lampard time, cuz in CL, England teams also bossed it. Domestically they are coached by a few best coaches in the world right now.

Until then, I was not impressed at all by the way England played.

Need I say more about the final? Where Italy (a team was completely dominated by Spain in the mid), out classed England from 25 mins onward, without any proper tactic adaption from Southgate? And the pens-substituation were the worst one I have seen in the history of football....

I dont blame the lads who missed the pens, they weren't even warm, their feet-ball feeling of 2 mins were NOTHING.

Southgate is mediocre and will drag down this best generation of footballer of England

Emobot7 3 months ago
458 10803

@tuan Ah, I think thats a bit hard on Southgate, obviously, with the player he has, he could certainly be a lot more ambitious but, I still have a lot of respect for how he doesn't let pressure influence his vision of the game. Putting Rice and Phillips over Henderson in the midfield, not playing Sancho and Grealish as starter most of the time either, those are not choice lot of peoples in his position would do.

I might not agree with all the decision he make but he got more of a backbone than a lot of former national manager before him and I can respect that. He play pragmatism, boring football and it feel like he purposefully want to be the underdog but there's no doubt that despite all that, he managed to get far in World Cup and Euro back to back.

Now personally, considering the players Englands have, if they weren't obsessed with having a English manager at the head of the selection, there is no doubt that they could have a much stronger team with a much more ambitious playing style. (Can we just ask Guardiola already? I mean, 1/3rd of the team is his already.)

0
Greatone 3 months ago
Arsenal, Australia 19 682

Not saying I think they are good, solid is to say its more reliably performing at a decent level. In essence I'm talking comparatively from when Southgate first came in. I think he has brought them some stability to build upon, maybe a new coach can take them further with the foundations he has created, but who knows.
I think England did what Italy did vs Spain, gave the other team too much respect and set up to play according to that.

His subs were agreeably poor, late and indecisive about using them.

0
Marcus2011 3 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 277 6499

I agree with Tuan 100%.

I have already shared a video of FA making 10 year plan to raise talent that can reach finals. Throughout entire tournament only game where Southgate showed good tactics were against Germany. We were never fully comfortable against any team and our win against Denmark even was put into scrutiny with unfairly given penalty.

Bookers, football experts and coaches were rating England’s squad as one of the best in the tournament but yet we came out to play defensive football against defensive team!!! Come on now! We should have pushed them in mid and hit them hard at ever chance with quick transitions. Southgate had an easy path to final compare to Italy yet even then I was hoping that england will demostrare that they could have done the same path but turns out not with Southgate at the helm.

This man knowing all the pressure of taking a penalties making silliest mistake for the manager to make. Not one mistake but 3 mistakes that were later blamed for the loose by the fans instead of manager being bashed. I usually defend managers more often than players but Southgate let down with his poor choices.

1
quikzyyy 3 months ago
Arsenal 425 8596

Also to add, referee performance in the final was absolutely amazing. So glad he didn't jump to these pathetic dives by Kane, Sterling & co.

2
Greatone 3 months ago
Arsenal, Australia 19 682

hey now, don't take away from Italy by saying they are a defensive team, they are actually an amazingly balanced side. Can play defensive when needed (against Spain the ball control experts) and then possession based whenever they don't need to. To be fair to Southgate even if he played attacking football, Italy would've still been comfortable and maybe even more dangerous on the attack considering their ability on the counter attack.
Perhaps Southgate looked at immobile not really being very effective and said the best chance for success would be to soak up an ineffective attack and go for counter attacking football with his speedy wingers. A decision was obviously made tactically but regardless of the decision, it might not have changed the result because of Italy's strengths.

No one is debating the penalty bullshit substitutions as being stupid. But England still have progressed, we aren't talking about a side with a historical background of winning things, England should be proud of their progress, it takes time sometimes.

0
Marcus2011 3 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 277 6499

How many games they went on without conceding a goal and how many they scored? I suggest to look into it. It will show that they are defensive team but no doubt they attack fast on the counter.

I wonder if Southgate analyzed Austrias game and Spains game against Italians then desided to go with Austrias approach?
I was hoping team would come playing aggressively ( which happened in first half) not giving any space to Italians in the mid and pressuring them hard at back everytime they have the ball. How many dangerous attacks and goals Italians have created directly from goalkeeper or defender? I think quite a few throughout the tournament. That is why Donnarumma is player of the tournament for contributing to their defensive set up and many attacks.

Amean i am not tactician to speak with confidence but as football fan who tries to pay attention to tactics, it was seemed to that Southgate was outclassed by Mancini by giving too much respect. On the paper we had equally strong team and to be honest better attack which was enough to break their defensive set up, yet their attack wasn't better than our defense. That equalizer was literally pushed in during moments of disarray.

England should have another 10 year plan to raise world class quality managers, because english managers mostly are crap. If not then lets hire someone proper whilst we still have a chance with this talent pool.

0
DarthFooty 3 months ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 16 820

From my perspective, there are just a few knocks on Southgate as a coach. The main one was how he handled the PK's. Now, before I get further, it is possible the three that happened to miss were some of the better takers on the team, so he has to try and include them if he feels that way. Of course, training PK's is night and day different than a match one, then add in the Euro title is on the line!

Even still, Southgate has to know that those players need game time and not 2 mins before it's called. Have Kane be the 5th kicker and move Saka into an earlier spot for less pressure. PK's are more mental than anything and with two players just stepping on for what, two mins, they are not in the game yet at all.

As a player, I always wanted to be a part of the 5 taking kicks. I was pretty good at them so I wanted to be first or the 5th taker. The coach can only look at those who are good at them and those who WANT to take them. You can't second guess yourself, because the keepers are just too good.

The other area for Southgate was his lack of adjusting to Italy's tactical change. They shifted into a wider, more free-flowing attacking three and started to push down both sides instead of just England's right. Walker was one of England's better players and you were not going to beat him with speed. So when they made the change, they pushed down Shaw's side more, but also pulled out the center backs as they needed to track deeper now. Chiesa getting hurt helped England as he was getting more looks with the change and was very dangerous.

Southgate never adjusted and thus the team ended up playing deeper and deeper.

I do think this England side is good and has a lot of upside going into the WC. It's about time as they, on paper, usually have one of the better rosters in the game, they just never play well as a team. I saw a team more this tournament, and that is scary for the rest of the world.

0
amir_keal 3 months ago
Arsenal, Netherlands 65 2876

It feels to me that people have been waiting for ages to hate on Southgate

There is a very popular phrase I know: Attack wins games, defense wins titles

England had the best defense of the euros. In 7 games they conceded 2 goals only, a screamer of a free kick and a mix up in the box. Other than that, perfect. Maguire in particular has been excellent, this man gets so much hate because he's not your typical sexy defender, and I agree he's no VVD, but he's still a good player.

I've not had a chance to properly read everyone's comments, but skimming through it's a lot of Southgate negativity. I will read them when I get the time however.

At the end of the day, as a manager you live or die by your decisions. Rashford is very experienced in penalties, and I thought the sub was excellent at the time. Since he missed, Southgate gets all the hate.

A few years ago, Van Gaal got praised for doing the exact same thing. He bought on Krul against Costa Rica and won the game, if he made a mistake or lost the game Van Gaal would be blamed.

1
amir_keal 3 months ago
Arsenal, Netherlands 65 2876

Southgate was inches away from being a genius, it is kind of painful to see people being brainwashed somewhat, but let's try to understand his shoes, if you look at Rashford's history, it was very good, so I don't think the sub can be hated too much, that's what I've seen Southgate's biggest criticism has been on, and it's honestly hilarious.

0
Emobot7 3 months ago Edited
458 10803

@amir I'm not one of the most critical about Southgate here but I would like to point out that the comparison with Van Gaal and Krul is different in the sense that he puposefully had Krull practice on penalty. Really doubt he had both Sancho and Saka focus especially on penalty for big part of tournaments or pre-tournaments.

But yeah, I agree about Rashford being brought in not being a mistake (his pen was pretty close imho), Sancho and Saka though... not quite a convinced.

Also, even if Southgate had won that tournament, I seriously doubt any of us would have called him a genius. His football is very pragmatism and fonctional, only thing I'm a fan of about his team is the discipline he bring out to his defense.

0
  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

@amir Not one of the most critical about Southgate here but I would like to point out that the comparison with Van Gaal and Krul is different in the sense that he puposefully had Krull practice on penalty. Really doubt he had both Sancho and Saka focus especially on penalty for big part of tournaments or pre-tournaments.

But yeah, I agree about Rashford being brought in not being a mistake (his pen was pretty close imho), Sancho and Saka though... not quite a convinced.

Also, even if Southgate had won that tournament, I seriously doubt any of us would have called him a genius. His football is very pragmatism and fonctional, only thing I'm a fan of about his team is the discipline he bring out to his defense.

Marcus2011 3 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 277 6499

"inches from being genius"

hahahahahahah you can't be serious... even if he has beaten Italy, he wouldn't have been called genius. Even after this run with England, if he goes out looking for job, only clubs that will seek his service will be mid level clubs... come to think of middle level clubs ... you are arsenal fan, and no wonder you are praising him. Arsenal should hire him immediately.

In 7 games they conceded 2 goals only

Yes we kept clean sheets against Czechs , Scotland, and Ukraine and toothless German team which prior to our game almost lost to Hungary. Italians had the best defense against best attacks in the tournament. Lets be honest and not fool ourselves. Try keeping Spaniards and Belgians ( 1 ranked team in the world) from scoring, that is a whole another level.

1
Marcus2011 3 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 277 6499

In UEFA tournament, team needs to get lucky a bit to win. Italian were lucky in somethings like when belgium wasn't fully fit, or penalties against Spain, playing in Rome often and we got lucky with our things.

Playing home more often than other teams. Team always fit, familiar pitch and weather, less travel, teams that weren't on par with us, and ofcourse our shady penalty that got us through to final.

to be honest, Southgate stayed because of his succesful run in WC 2018... where again our fixtures were ok. not that difficult and once we faced in form and strong side, we folded.

i don't deny any credit to Southgate, he has done great job with England, yet i wish this squad had slightly better tactician than him.

0
tuan_jinn 3 months ago
Manchester United, Netherlands 198 6885

Yes we kept clean sheets against Czechs , Scotland, and Ukraine and toothless German team which prior to our game almost lost to Hungary. Italians had the best defense against best attacks in the tournament. Lets be honest and not fool ourselves. Try keeping Spaniards and Belgians ( 1 ranked team in the world) from scoring, that is a whole another level.

this summarised it all. Until the very final minutes, I always watch England as a team with very mediocre tactic.... They have such a smooth route, but none of the substitution made any sense, EXCEPT to bring very late Grealish in every time who changed the game.

I stand by what I said, if England was managed by a better manager, they would have played much better, much more attrative football with all the potential they have. But of course it's easier to be said than done, I know that

0
Jabamirui 3 months ago
0 1

Vote France :D

0
quikzyyy 3 months ago
Arsenal 425 8596

Southgate was inches away from being a genius

I'll repeat myself:
Sancho - 21 years old, 97 minutes played whole tournament, 3 minutes on the pitch, not even touched the ball
Rashford - 23 years old, 84 minutes played whole tournament, 3 minutes on the pitch, not even touched the ball
Saka - 19 year old, 270 minutes played whole tournament, never taken a penalty for club/international level and you put him for 5th place.

How's this a genius move?


Beat Croatia 1:0, first 10 minutes England played amazing then it was just boring and waiting till the whistle.
Draw with Scotland 0:0, could have easily lost, not much to praise here.
Beat Czech Republic 1:0, against scored and then it was pretty much waiting for the final whistle again.
Beat 2:0 Germany, finally a good performance by England.
Beat 4:0 Ukraine, pretty much expected against underdogs, 2nd good performance by England.
Beat 2:1 due to Sterling dive and referee incompetence.

Played whole tournament at home (except one flight to Rome) while other teams have to fly thousands of km, where main threat of England was Sterling & Kane looking for penalty in every single match, I really don't see any reason to praise Southgate.

1
Marcus2011 3 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 277 6499

Ah, yes @tuan complete lack of tactical awareness at times, brining in useless players and for every confusing situation he would bring in Grealish.

We have plenty of talented players, and we also had them, but mate how come we can't get proper manager that utilizes them?

We had golden generation of players, who were all top class players in their respective clubs winning European cups and league cups, players who were sought by big clubs, yet we still couldn't get anything more than quarter finals.

0
amir_keal 3 months ago
Arsenal, Netherlands 65 2876

Sorry for the late one guys, I'll reply to you one by one now:

Emobot7

Van Gaal and Krul is different in the sense that he puposefully had Krull practice on penalty. Really doubt he had both Sancho and Saka focus especially on penalty for big part of tournaments or pre-tournaments.

Southgate spoke very importantly about practicing penalties actually. When we beat Colombia in 2018 it was a huge relief because he was the first manager to properly focus on penalties. Jordan Henderson missed on that night so seeing him come off wasn't the biggesr surprise for me, maybe he wasn't the best in training either, especially with the injury issues prior to the tournament.

Also, even if Southgate had won that tournament, I seriously doubt any of us would have called him a genius. His football is very pragmatism and fonctional, only thing I'm a fan of about his team is the discipline he bring out to his defense.

Maybe not the fans, but the pundits and the ex players definetly would have, and I do agree with them on this. Once the media create a narrtive on a manager/player it's pretty hard to stop that, even winning isn't enough sometimes. Personally I don't care about the pragmatic style too much, the game has grown to become more and more pragmatic and as long as the results are there that's the most important thing for a manager.

Marcus2011

if he goes out looking for job, only clubs that will seek his service will be mid level clubs

I'm not convinced any international manager could land a top top job, maybe one at most, but that's it.

Try keeping Spaniards and Belgians ( 1 ranked team in the world) from scoring, that is a whole another level.

Well Italy failed to do that, I think when we look at a defensive structure England have a better setup than Italy, I also think Spain being there is a bit of a fraud, even though they scored 5 goals in 2 games they missed way too many chances in the euros and they don't look clinical, I believe that Germany is harder to keep a clean sheet than Spain, they scored 4 goals against Portugal in a brilliant performance and scored 2 to Hungary, even though they did draw that game.

to be honest, Southgate stayed because of his succesful run in WC 2018... where again our fixtures were ok. not that difficult and once we faced in form and strong side, we folded.

You can only play what's in front of you, so to take credit away from him for that is harsh IMO. You talk about easier games but there is a reason for that. It's not our fault France lost to Switzerland, it's not our fault Sweden lost to Ukraine, it's not our fault Netherlands lost to Czech. Germany still played better than they did in the World Cup and the Nations League, so it was still an achievement if we talk about harder games.

quikzyyy

How's this a genius move?

Rashford scored 15 penalties and only missed 2 before that, we have seen incidents where a penalty expert has been subbed on just before the shoutout was done, and everyone was delighted to see Rashford come on. This can go 2 ways. usually goes good but sadly it can go bad, I remember the Zaza incident at Italy.

Sancho has never missed a penalty in his career, the substitition applies to him too.

Saka is a difficult one as a manager, him and Grealish wanted the 5th penalty and it was looking like he was gonna give it to Grealish, but after talking to Saka for a while he must have changed his mind. Whilst it was sad, and probably not the smartest thing, a player will always get more motivation when the manager directly believes in him, Ole at United is a great example of this.

Played whole tournament at home (except one flight to Rome) while other teams have to fly thousands of km, where main threat of England was Sterling & Kane looking for penalty in every single match, I really don't see any reason to praise Southgate.

Okay I'm not gonna lie, the multi countries should never be a thing again, unless it's like 2 neighbours hosting this was crap, in fairness though they did the stadiums before the draws were done, but it flopped massively, fully agree here.

With the second one, I'm talking about his defensive system, it's hard to score against England, They conceded an unstoppable free kick and miscommunication in the box, other than that the defense has been perfect.

I also don't care about the 1-0s too much, it's boring to see but you can't really say too much, at least he's winning, that's what he's paid to do. We would love to see more goals but he's not that manager.

0
tiki_taka 3 months ago
Barcelona, France 366 9753

Don't blame a coach from overpaid professional athletes failing to score a pk.

Pk needs fresh legs, and big mental not playing time...

1
amir_keal 3 months ago
Arsenal, Netherlands 65 2876

Fully agree with that statement.

0