being in del Bosque, you gotta bring in the good things La Liga and other spanish players showed during the season. bit of fresh air, koke-costa: you have to play them, together (Atleti block), save the fresh stuff is left from Barca (Iniesta), bring Fabregas in, or anyway whatever player who isn't Xavi... etc etc etc

I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid, is Atletico an English team ? Or has any English player ? Or an English coach ? Or someone in the staff who even speak English :) I saw what you did here.
A loss and you appeared as fast as the light, put your same old ideas...
By the way, is Mourinho English ?

I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid, is Atletico an English team ? Or has any English player ? Or an English coach ? Or someone in the staff who even speak English :) I saw what you did here.
A loss and you appeared as fast as the light, put your same old ideas...
By the way, is Mourinho English ?

And how this awful Barcelona and their Overrated useless players defeated Manchester City the PL champions 4-1 over 2 legs ?

I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?"

No you wouldn't. You just want to create silly dichotomies between being the best, and being crap, so that you can start at argument. I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up.

No longer the best is not the same as 'useless'. Suggesting that Barcelona are not the best is not outrageous, nor an insult, unless that is someone feels that no-one is allowed to suggest Barcelona are ever anything but the best team ever, using the best system ever, etc.

This part of the conversation is boring. I'd like to go back to chatting with others, thanks.

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?"

No you wouldn't. You just want to create silly dichotomies between being the best, and being crap, so that you can start at argument. I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up.

No longer the best is not the same as 'useless'. Suggesting that Barcelona are not the best is not outrageous, nor an insult, unless that is someone feels that no-one is allowed to suggest Barcelona are ever anything but the best team ever, using the best system ever, etc.

This part of the conversation is boring. I'd like to go back to chatting with others, thanks.

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?"

No you wouldn't. You just want to create silly dichotomies between being the best, and being crap, so that you can start an argument. I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up.

No longer the best is not the same as 'useless'. Suggesting that Barcelona are not the best is not outrageous, nor an insult, unless that is someone feels that no-one is allowed to suggest Barcelona are ever anything but the best team ever, using the best system ever, etc. But that someone would be a biased fan-boy who cannot be objective about his own team, and doesn't pay attention to facts.

This part of the conversation is boring. I'd like to go back to chatting with others, thanks.

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?"

No you wouldn't. You just want to create silly dichotomies between being the best, and being crap, so that you can start an argument. I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up.

No longer the best is not the same as 'useless'. Suggesting that Barcelona are not the best is not outrageous, nor an insult, unless that is someone feels that no-one is allowed to suggest Barcelona are ever anything but the best team ever, using the best system ever, etc.

This part of the conversation is boring. I'd like to go back to chatting with others, thanks.

"I dont know what EPL has to do with Atletico Madrid,"

Because Atletico Madrid learned how to tame Barcelona by watching the Premier League, and Real.

"A loss"

A destruction, you mean.

"By the way, is Mourinho English ?"

No, but he sure as shizzle shaped the progression of the Premier League as it went on to knock out Barcelona 4 times over the next decade, and provide Barcelona's opposition for every single time they made it to the final.

Facts don't change. :)

"I would be interested to know the perfect explanation from you sir ?"

No you wouldn't. You just want to create silly dichotomies between being the best, and being crap, so that you can start an argument. I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up.

No longer the best is not the same as 'useless'. Suggesting that Barcelona are not the best is not outrageous, nor an insult, unless that is someone feels that no-one is allowed to suggest Barcelona are ever anything but the best team ever, using the best system ever, etc.

This part of the conversation is boring. I'd like to go back to chatting with others, thanks.

[Edit because tiki edited to throw in extra insults: I recall the last time I disappeared it was because I was tired of having the same stupid argument with you, on every thread, about the leagues. Your behavior was disgraceful, and yet here you are waving it around as a flag. There is no lecture that I need from you about maturity. Now kindly stop trolling, before I ask a mod to intervene and put an end to your personal attacks. Understood? :)]

I guess if Italy beat England tomorrow you will disappear ? :)

I guess if Italy beat England tomorrow you will disappear ? :)
I remember the last time you disapeared for 3 month was the night Barça won against City, does results make you disappear and comeback, dont you think itss better to be flexible and change his mind a little rather than disappearing because of a result ? That would be more mature...

@Lodatz
"I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up."

they just need to be divided, use them individually into a new system, there you get back the good stuff. as i wrote days ago, it's all on del Bosque. he has plenty of motivated players. Tiki wouldn't you see a change in Spain system?

@Lodatz
"I have said that Barcelona's midfield is no longer the best. This is self-evident, over the last 3 years in which Barcelona have been defeated, and the demolition, this summer and last, of a Spain whose midfield is basically the Barcelona line-up."

they just need to be divided, use them individually into a new system, there you get back the good stuff. as i wrote days ago, it's all on del Bosque. he has plenty of motivated players. Tiki wouldn't you see a change in Spain system?

so you would keep the same style with fresh players, instead of a fresh style...with fresh players.

so you would keep the same system with fresh players, instead of a fresh system...with fresh players.

@shpalman & @Eden:

How about this, to try and use Fabregas and Silva at the same time?

I think that could be very versatile, to make use of what Spain have. For instance, in this line-up the striker role is a lone one, so if Costa gets tired/injured you can slip Villa or Torres into it easily, the latter of which at least has experience of it at Chelsea.

But the real versatility is in the midfield. With Xabi Alonso keeping watch from deep over the back four, the mid four can roam pretty much as they please, trying to find ways to unlock the opposition's defense. Both Iniesta and Koke's touch is exquisite, and they're creative, so could drift wide and forward, to make best use of their great dribbling and pass precision into the box. Meanwhile, Fabregas and Silva, masters of the central role, can take turns probing for an entrance behind the other team's defense. Because all four players are excellent technicians as well as intelligent, they can be trusted to wander and pair up as they see fit, and push forward in a more direct fashion.

And if Navas needs to come on, to inject pace into a wing, any one of these players could come off and have the others fill his shoes (except perhaps Iniesta, who is not really replaceable), so that the basic formation remains the same, just with Navas (or Alba, brought on as a winger) scaring the other team's full backs.

On the counter-attack, the midfield is skilled and comfortable enough with the ball to keep control of it, and with Alonso and Silva able to perform long balls with accuracy too, this should enable the whole Spain team to remain nimble and dangerous when breaking against the run of play.

Simeone would tip his hat, I feel.

*applause to Lodatz*

did you check? we made the same XI. the movement of Costa frees up space for Fabregas' raids (how do you call it?), shots out of the box etc.

Games where Spain's midfield is based around Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta (with Fabregas in all but one of them), contributing to this fact:

2011: Friendly loss, England (1-0)
2012: CL semi-final, Chelsea (3-2)
2012: Euros Group stage draw, Italy (1-1)
2013: Confederations Cup, Brazil (3-0)
2013: CL semi-final, Bayern Munich (7-0)
2014: CL quarter-final, Atletico Madrid (2-1)
2014: Copa del Rey Final, Real Madrid (2-1)
2014: World Cup group loss, Netherlands (5-1)

Just for posterity. :)

The best team/midfield in the world would have won all of them.

They didn't. And they've been losing more often lately, too.

The best team/midfield in the world would have won all of them.

They didn't. That's also three years where someone was better than them in Europe, and now two summers in a row where someone humiliated them.

The best team/midfield in the world would have won all of them.

They didn't. That's also three years where someone was better than them in the Champions League, and now two summers in a row where someone humiliated them.

It depends how you see humiliation, they lost to Brazil in the final, it has become too easy for them to achieve things that at each loss, people are getting shocked...
They are competing with thousands of clubs in CL and some have been waiting for years for a ticket, its not like those players relegated Barça, wake up.
We ended 2nd this year in a very tight Competition with the 2 best teams actually in Europe, Real MADRID and Atletico, we lost against Atletico in quarters of CL where we had some good moments but were too inconsistent due to many internal issues and out of forms, we arent in crisis and people think its the end of the world for Barça.
Those players can loose, they have nothing to prove and they seem less performent lately specially Xavi, i dont see what someone can ewpect more from his team ?

We will see if this game was just a warning to step up, or Players form and Dek Bosque choices would make them quit the competition, lets be patieng.

It depends how you see humiliation, they lost to Brazil in the final, it has become too easy for them to achieve things that at each loss, people are getting shocked...
They are competing with thousands of clubs in CL and some have been waiting for years for a ticket, its not like those players relegated Barça, wake up.
We ended 2nd this year in a very tight Competition with the 2 best teams actually in Europe, Real MADRID and Atletico, we lost against Atletico in quarters of CL where we had some good moments but were too inconsistent due to many internal issues and out of forms, we arent in crisis and people think its the end of the world for Barça.
Those players can loose, they have nothing to prove and they seem less performent lately specially Xavi, i dont see what someone can ewpect more from his team ?

We will see if this game was just a warning to step up, or Players form and Dek Bosque choices would make them quit the competition, lets be patieng.

@Shpalman Italy in 2012 took 4 slaps to 0 and you found some explanations, why judging a game about his score, modern Football is crazy, even Bayern took 0-4 at home does it mean they are done next year ? Of course not.

France won world cup in 98 and lost in groupstages, sometimes sh*t happens and you explain it very well when it happens to Italy, so yes dont be fast getting into conclusions wait and see....

" they lost to Brazil in the final, it has become too easy for them to achieve things that at each loss, people are getting shocked..."

Yes, but not simply because they lost; because they were so comprehensibly out-played. Brazil just walked all over them, the supposed best midfield in the world. A couple of months earlier? Bayern had outright STOMPED all over them. And now this year? They've been busted open once again.

You cannot claim that this midfield is the best in the world, or even Europe, anymore, because if it were, they would not be getting ripped to pieces by teams filled with players who are supposedly not as good as them.

"We ended 2nd this year in a very tight Competition with the 2 best teams actually in Europe, Real MADRID and Atletico,"

Which means that the two Madrid midfields are better than Barcelona's, right? Otherwise, how come Atletico out-played them in the CL and La Liga, and how come Real out-played them in the Copa del Rey? Clearly, they must not have been as good as the two Madrid teams, or else they'd have won something against them.

"we arent in crisis and people think its the end of the world for Barça."

Why? Just because you're not the best team in the world, or Europe, or even Spain, anymore?

I'm going to bed. I can see this is going to go nowhere. As per usual.