HALA MADRID.

Great game for the squad. Ronaldo, Modric, Carvajal, Casemiro, and Marcelo were stellar!

I do feel bad for Juventus, though. They were absolutely terrific on the night.

Facts

• Real Madrid win for a record 12th time
• Juventus loses for a record 7th time
• Cristiano Ronaldo becomes the first player in the CL era to score in three different finals
• Cristiano Ronaldo becomes the first player in the CL era to score 4 goals in the final
• Cristiano Ronaldo scored his 600th goal for club and country with his half-volley from Modric's cross
• Real Madrid have now won 6 European Cups and 6 Champions Leagues - the most in each era
• Real Madrid become the first team to win back-to-back since AC Milan in '89 and '90
• 6 out of the last 8 participants in the Champions League final has been from Spain
• A Spanish team has won the last 4 Champions League titles

Meh. This has gotten pretty personal between Amer Dy and Tiki.

Honestly amer, a trebel and sextuplet is a bigger achievement than a back to back cl, at least on my opinion. Talk about swarming refs or calls going barcas way, yet madrid were very fortunate this year against Bayern with a couple of red while avoiding them and also Ramos was a dirty c*nt against Cuadrado. Nobody even mentioned it and you claimed the media is so biased against real and played the victim for so long. Honestly you and tiki behave the same just support rival teams.

@Raimondo No disrespect, but I haven't seen you ever discuss Valencia in my 3 years on this forum (Although I could be very wrong). I honestly think that you and Golazo111 are closeted Barcelona and Real Madrid fans lol.

Back to your point, I see where you're coming from but then again no te in history has defended their champions League title since the new flat in 92 while many teams have won the treble.

Honestly Valencia in its current state is pointless to discuss. We have done terribly ever since Lee bought the club and injected money with no solid plan. Every time a great youth player comes along he is quickly picked off by a wealthier club. Don't even get me started in how on earth we allowed Isco to leave to Malaga. Neville is probably the blunder of the last decade in managerial terms. The current state of our team is reflect by our position. Mid table mediocracy. Not to mention it would be a waste to put a lot of effort into writing something about Valencia when in this forum not a lot of people would actually be interested in it (it gas happened before). Barca, Madrid and EPL are the most talked about things on here.

If there is one thing I admire most in teams is the successful academies supplying first team with players and Barcelona had a great period with that so thats what i liked about them; ManU, Arsenal and Ajax are also known for it. Their playing style is also quite attractive to me and id die to see Valencia head in the direction of the Barcelona from 2008 in terms of play style and board management.

Back onto the B2B CL vs treble sextuplet, I don't I guess at the moment the B2B is just seem as historic even though it has happened on the European Cup, don't even try arguing that its a different format so it doesn't count because Madrid fans easily count the 6 European Cups they won along with the CL so you cant have it one way when its convenient. That's my point of vie at least. I don't pretend I'm 100% righ either, but we can discuss further if anyone is interested.

raimondo: Consider this. How many teams, how many times have won the treble since 1992?

I know Barca has, I know Bayern Munich has. I know that even Manchester United has.

Not a single team however, other than Real, has managed to win Champions League trophy back to back. It's incredibly difficult, more so than a treble and I'll tell you why.

It requires the team to reign supreme for not one, but two years. The second year, every team wants to dethrone the champion. Every team has seen and watched them play for quite a bit, and more or less, know their style. Know what to expect, and know exactly the answer to it. If any team has beat them within that time span, the other teams can look at it as a guide.

When you win a treble in a single seasons, it is a great achievement. You were, bar none, the best team that year. You've won it all. It can even be thought of as taking the World by 'surprise'. Winning it only once is kind of like that.

Twice? No, not a surprise anymore. It requires a team to dominate for two consecutive seasons, with all that comes with summer transfer windows and clubs bettering their squads.

There is a reason why every great team has won a treble, but only a few - even among the entire footballing history - managed to repeat or defend their title. It's simply a bigger achievement.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

@rai he went personal because my response is not debatable :) stopped reading his BS line 2 because I saw he won't talk about football.

@amerr next time when you will try to randomly compare or say BS, remember people can reply its the way a forum works. You appear in good moments and disappear In the worst you are the type of fans and person in general i despite. Kind of Madridista who hate teams that slams them consistently but that's the way it is, and I will remind that to you anytime you forget it when you try to make a bs analyse of yours.

I feel sorry for Juventus. Twice now they are denied by Spanish giants. Juventus are a great team but Barcelona and Real Madrid just have too much talent and their disposal. They have improved their quality in the last decade so much that they have answer to everything you throw at them. It is quite an astounding fact that the two teams (Atletico and Juve) who where supposed to have the best defence in Europe got thrashed by Real Madrid.

Amer, you do have a valid point. Real has really been the most dominant team of the past 5 years but only on the CL. They were unable to overcome Barca or Atletico. They have established a very deep a incredible squad, I think of the 23 players probably 19 would be automatic starters in any team.

You claim other teams can strengthen and learn Reals tactics but thats a narrow point of view. Real also participates in the transfer windows, they also adapt to opponents and they also change up some tactics to improve their game. I think Reals saving grace this last two seasons was the fact they have key players who routinely stepped up when the team needed them (looking at you Ramos with those 90mins headers).

Here is some food for thought; The list of European treble winners since 1992 is the following:

• 1998/99; Manchester United
• 2008/09; Barcelona
• 2009/10; Inter
• 2012/13; Bayern Munich
• 2014/15; Barcelona

Thats four teams with Barca repeating this feat. If we extend the years back to pre 1950, there is only three other cases of a treble. Celtic in 1966/67, Ajax in 1971/72 and PSV in 1987/88. So in total we have 8 trebles in over 50 years.

Now lets look at how many times a B2B has been achieved.

Since 1992, Real Madrid are the only ones, but when we look back we have:

• Real Madrid winning 5 consecutive European Cups from 1955-1960.
• Benfica winning 1960/61 and 1961/62.
• Inter winning 1963/64 and 1964/65.
• Ajax winning 3 consecutive EC from 1970-1973.
• Bayern Munich winning 3 consecutive EC from 1973-1976.
• Liverpool winning 1976/77 and 1977/78.
• Nottingham Forrest winning 1978/79 and 1979/80.

Now as we can see this feat was done a total of 11 times, 12 if we include Real Madrids recent one.

So I don't understand why you claim "There is a reason why every great team has won a treble, but only a few - even among the entire footballing history - managed to repeat or defend their title. It's simply a bigger achievement." If what you were saying is true, you are excluding a lot of great teams that never won a treble, Real being one of them.

Just like Tony Kroos said, winning 2 years in a row shows not only a great team on the pitch but also off the pitch.

A team can win once everything but to be dominant in Europe in this modern time and win back-to-back Champions League has never happen before Real Madrid did it.

So all those great teams winning alot 1 season and being unable to repeat it the next just adds to this great historical achievement that Real Madrid managed to accomplish.

I have seen Manchester United winning 3 Premier League titles in 3 years and Champions League, they were so dominant but still couldn't manage to defend their European title, it's a privilege to witness this generation of Real Madrid players I never thought that new football history will be written in this time.

Football didn't really get difficult until the 80's, when the Italians showed the world how to play an organized defense. Combined with Cruyff's total football moniker, this led to the first truly modern teams being born in AC Milan, Ajax, Barcelona, etc.

Any treble or back-to-back before the 80's is irrelevant in this discussion. Different era where defending was poor and it was easier to dominate. Much easier.

I'll make it easier for you guys to understand.

Trebles that matter

• Manchester United 1998/99
• Barcelona 2008/09
• Internazionale 2009/10
• Bayern Munchen 2012/13
• Barcelona 2014/15

Back to Backs that matter

• AC Milan 1988/89 and 1989/90
• Real Madrid 2015/16 and 2016/17

You do the math.

So we can pick and choose what matters and when? So under your thinking, Madrid first five EC don't matter so they are only at 6 or 7? Defending was poor, but every team had poor defending not just a few. What matters is that Ita history and you can't ignore it when its convenient for your point. It's ridiculous Real Madrid fans celebrate the 12 CL then say nothing before 1980 counts. C'mon man, even yij can see how that just a flawed argument.

@Dyn: well said!

People will try to play it down of course but in 50 years it will be much more clear how amazing this generation was, it takes a person to step back and put 2 and 2 together, it was a huge deal that Real Madrid broke the curse.

Back to back Champions League and a domestic League title is something most people would choose for their club, specially over winning 1 Champions League, domestic League and domestic Cup in 1 year, the thing Real Madrid didn't win is the domestic Cup which is the smallest of the titles, nobody with common sense minds about that.

@tuan_jinn Well deleted for no reason yet again.

@Rai

So we can pick and choose what matters and when? So under your thinking, Madrid first five EC don't matter so they are only at 6 or 7?

If you're going to make an argument that Madrid's back-to-back isn't as impressive, then you must understand the context of the situation. We've pointed out that since Italian defending has been assimilated with Cruyff's total football, only one team has won a B2B other than Madrid - Sacchi's Milan. But numerous teams have won a treble; five in fact.

You claim that numerous teams have done it in the past. But it was easier in the past. How many games did Di Stefano have to play to win the 1960 European Cup? Seven. He played a Barcelona team in the semi-finals who had.... Sandor Kocsis? That's about it? I don't even know if Zoltan Czibor played in that squad.

Who did Madrid have to face in the semi-finals? Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid. I dare you to say that 1960 Barcelona was a tougher opposition than Simeone's Atleti.

These days you are very likely to face tougher opposition in the group stages than you did in the semi-finals in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. We are not dismissing Madrid's first 6 titles. That was a different team in a different era. We are celebrating our 12th title and only the second B2B European Cup since 1980. Give us a break.

Don't try to demean our success because of your hatred of Madrid. You've tried to do this numerous times in the past. We are not gloating to you or anyone else. We're just celebrating for f*cks sake.

Dy, you cant really compare a team from 1960 to a team from today. Yes teams were easier compared to todays standard but I doubt that in 1960 anyone thought teams were easier. Its a naive thing to say. The standard has been raised but it does not negate whats come before.

The score lines for matches were erratic but mind you defences weren't organised and there was no offsides. But both of these applied to every single team, so its not like one held an advantage. Looking at the first 5 final's score line the margin by which they were won was actually competitive (with one crazy outlier of 7-3). Other than that the results are something we might even see today.

This isn't a personal attack on Madrid fans or Real as a team. Its just pointing out that flawed argument to say "the first B2B" and then say its the 12th title. Its not a true statement. No one is demeaning Reals success, its frankly impossible to do so. They have been the best and most consistent European team for the last 5 years. At the end of the day, this is a discussion about point of views or opinions, Im just showing you evidence to dispute your claims.

@Joze: ? You comment? I didn't delete it. And with that "e-penis"* kind of comment, I would delete it too if other mod hadn't. Can you please try to avoid that.

This isn't a personal attack on Madrid fans or Real as a team.

But before this statement came this first:

Honestly amer, a trebel and sextuplet is a bigger achievement than a
back to back cl, at least on my opinion. Talk about swarming refs or
calls going barcas way, yet madrid were very fortunate this year
against Bayern with a couple of red while avoiding them and also Ramos
was a dirty c*nt against Cuadrado. Nobody even mentioned it and you
claimed the media is so biased against real and played the victim for
so long.

So conclusion is that raimondo90 is only trying to play down the historical back to back Champions League wins of Real Madrid.

1. Winning twice in a row Champions League + League once is more impressive than winning it once + League + domestic cup.
2. Alot of teams can dominate the domestic league, get money and finally win a Champions League while still dominating their domestic league, like Inter Milan, Bayern, Barcelona.
3. If Barcelona had broken the Champions League curse I could bet all my money that Tiki _taka would never post the random shit rankings and raimondo90 from Argentina would praise Messi till the heavens, but since that didn't happen they both try to play down Real Madrids wins, they are just pretending and masking it with some random arguments

Facts.

Attack? Sure on Ramos' behavior. No one can deny what he did was dirty.

That's an opinion not a fact. There ono way to state that winning CL B2B with a league title is more than a treble hence why I said multiple times it was my opinion.

Teams at the very top don't really need the money from league cup or league title, they generate way more with other sponsors. See ManU about it.

Had Barcelona done the same my argument would still stand to anyone saying its the first B2B. Now that is a fact. I don't know what tiki or that I'm from Argentina has to do in this discussion but it seems you are just trying to stretch weak arguments.

You seem to gave taken this way more personal than it needed to be, I recommend you relax and formulate a real argument to discuss.