First, so sorry for every single victim & their families. I was f---ing gutted to hear. This is just awful and I don't want to get too deep into it to generate heated discussions. Bottom line is - this is f---ing disgusting.

Just wondering, we have many french ppl in footyroom (ppl who live in Paris too I assume)
Is everyone okey?

@salahadin

You either don't want to face the truth or lack enough knowledge to discuss this subject . I assume you trying to emphasize on the contribution of muslim world to development of the world in science and medicine . It is immense foundation , I agree . However, face the problems of the present not living with the memories of past . Situation has never been good ever since destruction of caliphate . Muslim world has been outsmarted and outplayed ever since in every area . This is not to point superiority of the west , it is to point out that lets not lie to ourselves that things would have been better if others did not interfere .

West interfered in Turkey but look at them . They are not doing so bad . Same goes with Iran and Jordan . Muslim countries play a chess game but can only think of two or three moves ahead while Western intelligence has 100 different versions of outcome of the game rewritten constantly for every scenario .

@tiki You no fool .

As Plato said:-“Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses.”

If we all behave don't insult , we can respect each others views and have constructive discussion but people bring emotion into political debates .

Man I don't know where to start. Just two days ago I was having hella fun in here and now I see nothing but broken ties.

I'm only 19 years of age. Lived in three different countries so I think I'm experienced when it comes to this discussion. I was born in Saudi, lived pretty much my entire childhood in Syria from 99-09 (Thankfully before the conflict), live in Canada as of 09, and originally from a failed state. See the difference between you and me, is that when I see these disgusting things on the news, it really hits home. For a guy like me who was always asked about women not driving in Saudi, ISIS terrorism in Syria, AND Somali Pirates/Al-Shabab, I've learned to let things go and let my actions speak for themselves. I've seen some horrendous comments today such as, "Just bomb the F-ck outta them!". Do you realize that's how ISIS, and every other major terrorist organization started? Do you know how the terrorists started in my country? Another one is the classic "Just close all the damn borders already." Seriously?! These people are running for their lives for that main reason you imbecile.

And I just would like to send some kind words to my brother @Emrecan. We may not be brothers in faith anymore, but we are no matter what brothers in humanity. I am not very different from you. In fact, I am a hafiz (Memorized the Quran for those of you wondering) and lead prayer multiple times. I as a youngster always had misconceptions and doubts about this faith. And just like you, went on a journey to find out if my religion is indeed barbaric. Believe me when I say, as a guy who's mother tongue is Arabic, I'm aware of the context of these verses the so called "Islamic State" follows. We have somewhat similar paths, we just differed on which exit we were going to take. it's indeed sad how people would use this beautiful Religion for their own personal agendas, then be the first to negate it when it contradicts their benefits and plannings. I fully respect your decision, and hope nothing but good for you and for the entire human race ( At least what remains of it.) Love you all, and to end it all of, I greet all of you with the greetings of my Religion, Asalamu Alikum ( May peace be upon you).

Edit: Fun fact, Muslims say "Allahu Akbar" in prayer aswell. So if you hear someone say that near you, take precaution (You never know if it is a terrorist.) but at the same time do not jump to conclusion. My heart aches for the world, and not for a country that has the same color of skin as mine. The world, not a country.

@Madridista11
Great words man ! I wish everyone would be like you.

@AlexBatak

"ISIS have no religion whatsoever. No one with a religion would kill an innocent."

You... can't be serious.

Um, the history of religions, basically ALL of them, has been nothing BUT killing (and oppressing) people in the name of one's chosen god. All you have to do is declare that person X is guilty of sin Y, and thus they no longer qualify as 'innocent' to begin with. It's a pretty classic trick across every major religion in the world.

You know, like people having their heads sawed off simply for being an apostate, or burned at the stake for being a witch, or, come to think of it, people being blown up in a Parisian square by someone who believes they're going to Heaven for doing so. Or repeated wars over religious real estate. Or wars of vengeance, too; holocausts from that of the Nazis all the way back to good ol' Joshua and the genocide at Jericho. Let's not forget either the massacres of the Qurayza of Medina, even after their peaceful surrender (feel free to look that one up).

Not to mention the mother of all really effing stupid situations that is Jerusalem, and all the problems it has caused regarding possession of the so-called 'holy land'.

Sorry man. You and I are pretty tight, but that statement is just utterly absurd.

ISIS is an Islamic organization, essentially carrying out the same mission as the founder of Islam. You know, that bloodthirsty warlord who conquered (mostly slaughtered) most of the Middle-East in the name of his faith, and FAITH-BASED rulership. The more we try to pretend otherwise, the longer this problem continues.

It's time to grow up, and stop making excuses for it. I'm frankly rather appalled at how many people on here are attempting to point fingers elsewhere for this awful act, just because it is their religion which has come under fire. If the Muslim world doesn't want the West to associate it with this kind of awfulness, then maybe they need to wake up in the way that the West did towards Christianity; that is: don't let it make the rules.

Bad Things Happen When Religion Writes the Rules.

All this nonsense about the US 'creating' ISIS is just that: nonsense. ISIS states quite clearly what it's mission and objectives are, and they are always stated with religious pretense. They have literally taken-over swathes of the desert, and declared religious law. They slaughter westerners in the exact same fashion that people have been slaughtered under various Islamic religious regimes for centuries, and they still give the same religious reasons.

Whether you think they are merely some political instrument really doesn't matter; they claim direct ownership and authority of their territories (and seek to inspire more) upon religious grounds, and make that their slogan.

They wouldn't do that, if it didn't sell so well among the populace in the Middle-East who have been under similar Islamic laws for all those same centuries, until they were (briefly) conquered by European nations with vastly superior technology and weapons for about 60 years, and then given back to either their Imams or the princes to govern however they wished.

Then most of the Middle-East had revolutions, because they were sick of it, and wanted to embrace the West. And then there was a bunch of horrible dictators who oppressed people in the manner of Stalinist Russia, like Gaddafi, Mubarak and Hussein, who then got US support in standing up to the Russians.

Then then, recently, there were MORE revolutions, embracing democracy, and right away we have the religious extremists pour out of the woodwork as they try to shout and holler their outrage at the fact that the world is not following their religion...

...and we get fricking ISIS.

The problem is staring you in the face. It's inherent to the texts, and the Prophetic account. It's the same reason why we no longer have an Inquisition in Europe.

Put bluntly, the West tamed religion and made it subordinate to science and liberty. There are still plenty of Christians, but they are mostly good ones, having grown up in world where liberty and law take precedence over religious edicts. They've been influenced by the West's period of Enlightenment. They've been made secular, in a way.

Until the Middle-East world crosses this same threshold, the so-called extremists will always have a place within it, and they will continue to perform awful deeds because it is considered religiously glamorous for them to do so within the region. Look at the Muslim world in Indonesia, which has NONE of these problems. But Indonesia has inherited the more enlightened version, the more modern one which pays homage and is subordinate to secular law, because they are not so used to dictatorship over there.

Blaming the West for all this horrible violence is, well, pretty outrageous in my eyes. They still too desperately want to be martyrs.

Let's not fool ourselves, ISIS is the gun and USA And the west are the bullets to that gun. No one in their area needs them nor support them. ISIS are a group from Iraq who did the same what they did to France in Syria and USA are the main supporters to ISIS to destroy Syria more than it's currently destroyed. So I don't blame Refugees for coming to us here and therefore I support helping the refugees. The only people to blame really is the USA and Europe leaders for making such a mess. It's a cold war that will soon turn into 3rd world war.

ISIS or Bin Laden I can assure you 100% that none of those countries ever heard of something called Al Qaeda before 9/11 they were created all of a sudden by the USA to start a war for Oil in Iraq and then Afghanistan.

Let's be objective, I'm not even a Muslim nor Christian or Jewish I have my own created religion call it a spiritual religion but I have to agree with this comment I saw the other day on the net which says the things everyone forgot because of the media:

In the HISTORY of the world, who has KILLED maximum INNOCENT human
beings

1) "Hit*ler" Do you know who he was?

He was a Christian, but media will never call Christians terrorists.

2) "Joseph Stalin called as Uncle Joe".

He has killed 20 million human beings including 14.5 million were
starved to death.

Was he a Muslim?

3) "Mao Tse Tsung (China)"

He has killed 14 to 20 million human beings.

Was he a Muslim?

4) "Benito Mussolini (Italy)"

He has killed 400 thousand human beings.

Was he a Muslim?

5) "Ashoka" In Kalinga Battle

He has killed 100 thousand human beings.

Was he a Muslim?

6) Embargo put by George Bush in Iraq,

1/2 million children has been killed in Iraq alone!!! Imagine these
people are never called terrorists by the media.

Why?

Today the majority of the non-muslims are afraid by hearing the words
"JIHAD".

Jihad is an Arabic word which comes from root Arabic word "JAHADA"
which means "TO STRIVE" or "TO STRUGGLE" against evil and for justice.
It does not mean killing innocents.

The difference is we stand against evil, not with evil".

You still think that ISLAM is the problem?

1. The First World War, 17 million dead (caused by non-Muslim).

2. The Second World War, 50-55 million dead (caused by non-Muslim).

3. Nagasaki atomic bombs 200000 dead (caused by non-Muslim).

4. The War in Vietnam, over 5 million dead (caused by non-Muslim).

5. The War in Bosnia/Kosovo, over 5,00,000 dead (caused by non-Muslim).

6. The War in Iraq (so far) 12,000,000 deaths (caused by non-Muslim).

7. Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Burma etc (caused by non-Muslim).

8. In Cambodia 1975-1979, almost 3 million deaths (caused by non-Muslim).

"MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS AND TERRORISTS ARE NOT MUSLIMS."

Please remove first double standards on Killings.

What would you reply to this guy? I was speechless. You can't just ignore stats and focus on what you feel like is more important than another and call yourself objective.

I don't know man.. But this world is just going to hell. and I'm sick of it.

You can delete this thread if you ask me. Again, just wanted to know if everyone's fine, not to generate discussion, which leads to hating each other.

BTW IF U THINK ISIS ARE MUSLIMS THEY ARE NOT. THEY ARE KILLERS!!!!!!!!

@decentK.

Meh. Thread is fine. I am happy to have my post deleted though, instead of having fights over it. I just... felt the need to respond to that point when I read it. I regret posting, honestly, so sorry for that.

You're right in that the focus should be on grieving for the lost of Paris (and around the world, too, as was rightly brought up by others).

Let's not go to deep guys, I must ask again.

ISIS and Al Qaeda do not represent any one nor any religion, they are extremist, killers, twisted mind and scum of the earth. And should be eliminated doesn't matter anymore who started it.

@Lodatz, your last post was a thing of beauty I wouldn't be ashamed of.

@decentK, as long as people can remain objective enough, talking about this subject shouldn't be an issue.

In terms of the topic at hand, which steadily progressed here since I last read a few days ago, I will say a few points. Please understand that as a New Yorker during 9/11, even though I was very young I can still remember the hate and fear that was present in the recent and long-term aftermath.

-ISIS is a terrible organization, that like it or not, use religion as their motivation. If the players at the top of ISIS actually believe what they're saying or using it as means is unclear, but the vast majority of foot soldiers are there because they are zealously religious.

-America DID have a hand in the stableness in the Middle East that eventually spawned ISIS. Turns out bombing civilian populations and attempting to kill off a culture for almost a decade can inspire resentment, who knew? However, saying that any Western nation is at fault for creating ISIS is untrue and ridiculous. I don't know how much of you are familiar with epistemology, which asks the question, "How do you know what you know?" It is a philosophical topic quite useful in analysing a situation like this.

Let's review. Say you are an average Middle Eastern man, from, say, Iraq. You are taught what you know from your religious family, and a non-secular school, in addition to as solid Middle Eastern culture. America and the coalition comes in an makes an absolute mess of it, maybe wreaking your hometown, or someone you know is killed as a result of "collateral damage."

You now have these traits:

You are Muslim.
You have experienced a high level of hardship in your life.
Some of that hardship is directly attributable to the West.
It is likely that someone you know has died in the conflict, and the war has undoubtedly touched you in some way.

How did we get ISIS from this? When you look at those factors, doesn't seem all that complicated. All you need is someone to tweak your religion so you have an outlet for all this resentment, and before you know it, you are driving a plane into a building or machine-gunning Paris.

Now, we must also understand, that even with this - most Muslims are not terrorists. The millions of people pouring into Europe right now are trying to escape many of the factors I just laid out.

But.

Let's face it, Middle Eastern Muslim people got screwed over in geopolitics, and the issue of Israel is just as stupid, anyone who doesn't vomit red white and blue can see that. With the exception of Africa, (that gets billions of dollars in loans from the world bank every year that just makes their issues worse, but that's a topic for another day) no part of the world is under-represented as much as the Middle East.

And because screw political correctness, Islam is the reason for that. Places like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, why would they want to join forces with a now mainly secular or Judeo-Christian view that dominates world politics? I'm sure these places hate the amount of scrutiny Islam gets from the actions of organizations like ISIS, but I doubt they hate ISIS's stated mission: creating an Islamic state.

What is the cause of all these problems? When you boil it down, America's Christianity, Israel's Judaism, and the Middle East's Islam are the root cause.

As an atheist, it pisses me the fuck off.

@Sun I like how you make this situation sooo simple! Like I've said in my previous comment, all these terrorist organizations started because of the west's doing. Don't make that seem smaller than what it is! I've lost friends because of these instabilities and this is getting worse by the minute. Blame who you wanna blame, that's completely up to you. But we all know here that numbers don't lie! Islam's been implemented here on earth for over 14 centuries and NOW you're telling me that it's barbaric? Pretty funny. We never heared of ISIS or Al-Qida until you've found OIL in our countries but ya whatever it's not really the west's fault! You know who's the most oppressed/killed from the "Islamic" State? Muslims. In fact, they don't just kill muslims, they also tarnish the image of Muslims who live abroad. They slaughtered scholars, women, children, they've cut down trees, destroyed Churches, Temples, and MOSQUES! They haven't left a rule that they did not break/bend. Look at this info-graphic and you tell me.

You see these idiots actually have a supervillain origins. They waited for the perfect opportunity to open up a book and cherry pick the verses they needed for their agenda. And wanna know whats worse? They recruit young, strong, overzealous guys to their army. Hell some of them don't even have a choice! It's either you join us or you join your family to the graveyards.

Again, my apologies of I've went over the top, @Sun. You having an opinion is your right and who am I to deny your right? All I'm asking for is for you to open your eyes and see for yourself. I've opened my eyes and I'm pretty content with what the Quran has. It didn't take much from me, to be honest, I went to my Imam that I studied the Quran under and he explained the context behind everything.

What I want you to realize is that the media is a powerful tool. If, hypothetically speaking, we were to have a discussion like this 60 years ago, we would've been discussing how the blacks have no rights, and that we must have segregation applied everywhere. 30 years ago, Mandela was a HUGE terrorist in the sight of the media, and Osama bin Laden was a hero for the USA. And what a SHOCK the tables have turned.

Nowadays, the media's focus is to destroy us, and they're succeeding. Let's not make it worse, let's not help them and aid them to separate us. If Religion doesn't bring us together, it's all right, we have many things that will. Just like football.

well said madridista and alex.

@Madridista11
That info-graphic is not true actually.

Guys, can we please end this?

This is not like BPL vs. LaLiga threads. Like decentK said, this thread can actually make us hate eachother.
I want to post many things but as a mod I will not post anything more for not to disrespect anyone's beliefs.

@Emrecan Just curious.. Did you learn about The Conquest of Mecca, by any chance? After Muslims were driven away from there land and beaten up, the Muslims came back to mecca to claim there place. This clip is from the movie "The Message" which I highly recommend you watch. If anything, watch this 13 min clip

If you'd wish to close this thread, do so. I've said everything I can say, and wish all of you a great day. Let's hope that these idiots don't ruin anything else for the rest of us... EVER AGAIN

I think this thread went far enough away from being about Football so it's time to close it. RIP to all the innocents that died in this world and hopefully the world will one day be peaceful.