My heart was shattered after today's game. Just shattered.

Is the result of 3-0 defeat marking the end of the 2018-2019 season for Manchester United? Before attempting to answer this question, there are several points I want to be clear.

There are two things I would like to discuss about the players and the coach.
1) People demanded for new players, for replacement of several positions on the field. It certainly is a sensible option. Are the players performing to their level? Are they playing well as a group? Are they playing with freedom and desire? Or are they just playing bad because they are just not good enough? What I saw from today's game is just not one or two players under-perform. It is nearly the team. There are one or two positions that I think the team is severely lacking in depth and quality, but that is not an excuse. That is something we can make up in the next transfer window, and preferably in the summer transfer window. History showed that ManU players bought in winter transfer window usually did not make it for the club. They needed time and games to adapt to the new environment. Hence, basically, if we want to strengthen the squad, we need to to wait until the next summer. Right now, ManU did not have that kind of luxury, so forget all the acquisition of World Class players, we need to focus on what is important right now. The cohesive of the team and the tactical style of ManU. #Cohesive #United #MoreAttackingStyle #YouthPlayers.

Instead of pointing the fingers to this player and that player to say he is sucked or whatever, it maybe time to sit down and reflect, and how to effectively use the players in the best scenarios. And oh, do not forget, ManU do have some very quality, up-and-coming defenders, in the like of Timothy Fosu Mensah, A. Tuanzebe and R. Williams. They have huge potential and given more game time, they will become something special for the club. Utilizing youth players from our academy is always the tradition of ManU, and we are proud of that. #Tradition #FergieKids

So what I am looking for from our players are their reaction to defeat. I am looking for their burning desire to perform, to fight, and to get the result for the club. If a player's heart is no longer at the club, then let him leave even if it grieves us. I am talking about Martial and Pogba, they are great players, one with huge potential and the other is world class. Losing them will be a real hit to any team, but no player is bigger than the team. There is no use in keeping players who do not want to be part of the club. If they still want to play for ManU, they will have to earn it in the training ground and in the upcoming match. #HeartBroken #LetThemLeave #NoPlayerIsBiggerThanTheTeam #Discipline

2) Mourinho - the coach : let's be honest here. we are spending hundreds of millions of dollars in the transfer market in the last few seasons, and according to Mourinho, it is still not a complete squad. Much to the dismay and surprisingly stubborn head of Woodward, things needed to be done are not done. #HugeMoneySpent #Wasteful

What I do not like about Mourinho, is his game style of parking the bus and defensive minded. It may have won us games in certain knockout stage, but that playing style is ugly, and it is not even effective for ManU. Last year's result proved it. Mou playing style is outdated, and the fans absolutely hate it. We know the playing style of ManU is fast attacking style by using classy wingers in the 4-4-2 formation, or the adaptation of 4-3-3 formation. Playing of one-touch soccer and crossing and dribbling has always been ManU forte. It's in our blood and vein. It's in ManU DNA!!! That playing style defines ManU, and no coach or manager is greater than the club! It is just that simple. #DefendIsBoring #Attacking #MoreAttacking #ManUnitedStyle

As much as my dislike for Mou's playing style, I want Mou to stay until the end of this season. People are asking for a change, people are looking for a sack. But the new coach/manger would need time to work with the players, he needs time to make the players familiar with the new tactics and he needs time to understand the players. Everything is taking time, and we do not have that kind of luxury either. We can talk and discuss about the change of management, when this season coming to an end, which I do think we need a new manager, who is more suitable for the club.

So, what do we do now? All hope seems lost? The answer is NO.
We need to find a short term solution for both the players and the coach. ManU needs to play every single game with the utmost desire to win. We need to treat every single game as if it is a cup final. The team (with us fans supporting) need to fight for the result. The team need to fight for every single ball. The coach needs to keep his head up and keeps the team morale high. He needs to let the team know, they are not just playing regular games, they are playing for the fans, they are playing for the pride of ManU, to show how good they are, to show how ManU are made of!!! What I am looking for from the team and the coach is their reaction, instant reaction! #Fight #EveryGameIsAFight #NeverBackDown

The result from the loss against Spurs is bad, but there is some slimmer of hope. At least, I saw a much more attacking oriented ManU, I saw how Mou ordered the team to press high up, and attempt more attacking soccer. Yes, we lose, but that is not the end. I do hope for a bounce back in the next week's game. Result in the next game will not matter to me, but the reaction from the players and the coach would be crucial. As a truly and loyal ManU fan, I will stick and support the team with all my heart. You guys won't hear any more complain about the coach or pointing the fingers at any players. We won't need that kind of reaction (from the fans). We need to show more faith in the team, and support, and give them will to fight. I believe in the team. And let's ManU keep going. #ManUNeedMoreSupport #LoyalFan #FightingSpirit

AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, THERE IS ALWAYS LIGHT.

Thanks guys for reading this, and let me know your opinion.

GameOn #Fight #MoreFight #ManUnited

I hate the hashtags on this post almost as much as the post itself.

More to the point, I don't value any reaction the day of, which is why if I do have a go at what you said, I'll do it tomorrow.

I do not quite comprehend what you mean by "don't value any reaction the day of". If there are points needed to be countered, then counter.

Also, rage and quit and violent reaction won't solve anything. I know lots people asking for Mou to be sacked now is just crazy and senseless. That is the most despicable act. Results will not get better after a change of management, as the new coach needs time and so on. And that is also unfair to Mou (eventhough I dislike his style), after signing a 3-year deal, you just sack him after 3 games is damn right awful. Give him time until the end of the season, and ask him to go, and we can replace with another coach.

I know how you might feel right now, and admittedly it would be the same for me, after seeing our beloved team getting trashed 3-0 at Old Trafford, the theater of dream. Sometimes, you need to be patient and react in the proper way. We need to show a bit of class.

I do not quite comprehend what you mean by "don't value any reaction the day of". If there are points needed to be countered, then counter.

Sleeping on it does wonders for perspective. Sports fans should try it sometimes instead of just having a knee-jerk reaction to everything.

Your first point:

You want to see the reactions of the players to the defeat. Not to go bursting bubbles, but this was it. We lost last week too. You talk about playing the kids, and imply that they are ready. I'm going to doubt this based on two developments: a) McTominany starting above Herrera for a large part of last season, and b) Periera's Valencia loan being opposed by Mou. That suggests that if Mou has plays who can break into the first team, he doesn't want them on loan, he wants them playing. Both Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe, good as they are, were encouraged to go out on loan. That speaks volumes.

Martial at this point could go and I wouldn't care, he shows no will. Pogba does, and like it or not, is our best outfield player. He is who were are building our team around. To suggest moving him requires a full rebuild. To many United fans this sounds like a good thing, but from where I'm sitting it negates any progress we've made from the Moyes disaster.

Second point:

"No coach or manager is greater than the club." I suppose that it is worth pointing out that when Fergie used this line to defend shipping out the Beckham's of the world, from his perspective he was the club. And I think that is where you're really going wrong here. You speak of United DNA, and certain formations like it's what we've always done. It's not. It's what Fergie did. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, then you have to acknowledge that the memory of Fergie and the amazing manager that he was is what is keeping us from accepting any other style. Is that harmful? It becomes harmful when fans reject any type of style except Fergie's, even when it wins them games. That led to the board not backing Mou, which could lead to a 2015-esque Chelsea season, which would be worse than Moyes.

To put it more simply:

The fans banging on about attacking soccer do not understand the manager that Mou is. I see it in my own domestic side, the Seattle Sounders. They've won 8 games in a row, and look to be going back to the playoff final for the 3rd time in 3 years. And the articles written about them say things like "oh we don't think they have an identity!" Piss off. It's the same thing for United.

The United identity that you remember is Fergie. Plain and simple. The identity you don't like is Mou. Because while no players are bigger than the club, for the duration of their stay at least, managers are the club. You say things like you want change, but want to keep Mou to the end of the season. To say that is to give up on in the season in third week of it. Either fire him and bring in a new identity, or see him out with what he does best. Because we saw yesterday when Mou tries to appease the fans, and it brought us a 3-0 loss at home TO SPURS. I have literally been on this forum and reddit and seen United fans say they preferred the Spurs game to other games we've won in traditional Mou style, because "at least we attacked."

Now that I'm done banging on you, I'll give something to work with here. As far as I can tell, there are 3 options:

1) Support Mou and see out the year. Pros: Mou isn't a terrible manager and could probably at least get top 4. Cons: The defensive setup you all seem to hate.
2) Fire Mou and replace him with an attack-minded manager. Pros: Attacking. Cons: Literally everything else.
3) Support Mou but force him to change tactics (your suggestion). Pros: Attacking. Cons: You take a manager and force him to do something he's not good at, which is as far as I'm concerned exactly what I saw yesterday. Imo this is how you end up in 10th at the end of the season, or worse.

When it's said like this you'll have to forgive me for disagreeing entirely with you.

Literally the whole thing that you said mean shit to me. There are tons of loopholes in the logic here and there.

I have to go for work, I will explain more later when I have time tonight.

Especially the identity part, you can just switch your allegiance to another successful club then. ManU is ManU is ManU. We have identity, and it's not just since Sir Alex era. Think about as far as Sir Bobby Charlton. That's how ManU's soccer really is.

Suit yourself.

Uniteds lack of transfer activity reminds me of Chelsea's 2015 season. then Conte's 2017. All have same common denominator, board not backing the manager in transfer market.

And it looked like Mourinho playing Herrera at the back instead of one of the other CBs looked like an act of rebellion against Woodward for not getting Maguire/Alderweireld or any of the other 10 CBs they were linked to.

When your spending 350 million in 3 summer transfer windows I would like to think that the manager in charge can deliver a semi decent season.before asking for 2/3 players in addition. He wanted 2/3 but he didn't get any more. United have bought 2 CB in both of the first windows, Bailly and Lindelof. Now I heard United were interested in Mina. I've always said Bailly's biggest weakpoint was his rather shit passing and handling pressure. He is a great defender at tackling and challenging players in duels. Mina is no different. So why would the club spend 60 million on another Bailly. Because yes, Mina also can not handle pressure and is shit at passing, which makes the signing pointless.

Spending money won't fix the cracks, you have 5 CB, but want to add more? The top teams usually have 3 CB, 2 starters and a substitute. Understanding your defensive partner is as important as being able to defend. There was this time Smalling and Bailly were injured and Rojo and Jones formed a pretty decent partnership together. A vicious cycle of spending money year in year out will not fix anything. The way I see it, if the board are choosing to limit Mourinho's transfer requests, well good. 6 CB is certainly not necessary.

Mou needs to manage himself better also. Bailly starts a game and then isn't in the matchday squad. Same with Martial. They may have played crap but you won't get any form of consistency that way.

Personally, I think this should be the lineup, or something along the lines of this.

Forgot to put this, but if Sanchez doesn't perform in a run of games, Lingard should take his place, same could be same for Lukaku who can be replaced by Martial or Rashford, I will let you choose which one you would rather play.

@amir you forgot to consider fellaini to outmuscle opponents in aerial duels :p

@amir Thats a good lineup to be fair but it really make me feel like United would have had a better chance this season with another CBé :(

thebaldgenius

Of course! He can be a backup to Matic :)

Emobot7

I guess a Toby would have improved the defense, but I think only he would have. Mou listed 10 CB to sign, but i doubt many would improve the side. Not to mention Mou did lose to Bristol City I believe and Sevilla with a much much better team. I feel he needs to earn more trust before just spending, because top top defenders are becoming rare to buy, its becoming easier to develop them. Skriniar from Inter is looking like a hot prospect who was rather unknown before last season.

When your spending 350 million in 3 summer transfer windows

You know this is why Arsenal hasn't won crap since 2004. It is like Wengers philosophy is within you.

Guardiola spent on defense 448 million pounds! And added some more. In entire time he has been there he has spend close to billion pounds.. mate, I am not trying to change the topic but did you just wake up and started to watch football ? Do you see the damn prices they charge EPL clubs? Do you see that it has become normal to spend so much and it became harder to scout good players at bargain? We got overhyped Bakayoku and Morata for sht load of money! We got Azpi 6 years ago for barely 10 mil and he is one of the best right/left backs in the world..

you have 5 CB, but want to add more? The top teams usually have 3 CB,
2 starters and a substitute

Quality over quantity. Do you want say that you would love to have Jones and Smalling in your defense? Do you want to say that these players deserve to play in worlds most expensive football club? If yes, then Wengers syndrome confirmed!

Mou needs to manage himself better and he probably will better off by getting fired but Manchester's board should be also evaluating themselves and manage the club properly by letting football minds do the management on the field. Ed Woodward is accountant and investment banker so please be an accountant and investment banker but apparently deals with all the transfers lol

Here:

" After the 2018 summer transfer window, it was revealed Woodward had vetoed the transfer targets given to him by manager José Mourinho at the end of the 2017–18 season. This created tension in the club, with Mourinho and the United fans alike criticising Woodward for the lack of improvement in the squad.[12] Fans complained that the club was focused more on brand development than footballing success. This was emphasised with the announcement of a brand deal with Chivas Regal whisky on 8 August, a day before the transfer window shut, which was announced with a video clip that the club usually reserved for the announcement of new players."

I thought he understood how to shut the fire since his sacking, he didn’t he will end up loosing the dressing room if it’s not already the case...

@trimind

I appreciate your point mate, but when it comes to finishing, it's really Bizarre of guys in front.

Marcus2011

You know this is why Arsenal hasn't won crap since 2004. It is like Wengers philosophy is within you.

Ahaha mate good one, but firstly Wenger didn't choose to limit money spent on players, it was Kroenke. Even Emery hasn't spent that much in this window. Secondly, if he is going to ask for another CB, I'm trying to say that he could probably sell one or two and reduce the budget he is asking, not to mention not having such a big team.

Guardiola spent on defense 448 million pounds

In his entire career I presume, because I believe in City he spent just around 250. Not to mention, a lot of that were full backs. They sold Kolarov, Zabaleta and Clichy, and then bought in Danilo, Mendy and Walker. Whereas United are looking to add in players where they already have more than enough cover.

In entire time he has been there he has spend close to billion pounds

He has spent a lot there yes, but at least he is getting something. But I don't think he has spent anywhere near a billion. They had a successful year that they decided to only buy Mahrez in, no one else was added to the side.

became harder to scout good players at bargain

Well it's not the money that is the only factor here. Tottenham have Sanchez, Vertonghen and Alderweireld. Now these guys all have played for Ajax, so I may have some knowledge on this topic. Vertonghen was probably the only decent CB when he left Ajax, so I'll leave him out.

Alderweireld when i used to watch him was excellent, I used to actually believe he had potential to be the best CB in the world at some stage of his career. Then he went to Atletico I believe, and however hard he tried, he wasn't getting ahead of Godin and Miranda. I thought it was another career waste, but he took a loan to Southampton and did excellent. Then Tottehnam got themselves a well known bargain.

On the other hand, Davinson Sanchez left Ajax directly to Tottenham. Now trust me when I say this but this guy was actually shit at Ajax, like super shit. It made me laugh when Tottenham broke their transfer record for this guy, I laughed and said they have it all wrong. But this guy is playing regularly and putting in good performance in a strong unit. It's not the money of the prices, it's the actual player. Surely Bailly with some decent coaching is better than this guy. Spending 60 million on Maguire or Mina or something is really stupid, especially when they aren't upgrades to what they already have.

Quality over quantity. Do you want say that you would love to have Jones and Smalling in your defense? Do you want to say that these players deserve to play in worlds most expensive football club? If yes, then Wengers syndrome confirmed!

I agree with you, both it's easier to get rid of the quantity before adding the quality surely?

Mou needs to manage himself better and he probably will better off by getting fired but Manchester's board should be also evaluating themselves and manage the club properly by letting football minds do the management on the field. Ed Woodward is accountant and investment banker so please be an accountant and investment banker but apparently deals with all the transfers lol

Agreed again.

And just before you ask, there are quite a few CB that could add to their team IMO. Here is some names that are available

Boateng- Bit of a risky move, but might be worth paying off. Up to how serious United are for a CB.
Alderweirld- Were interested but didn't get
Koulibaly- Has a 70 million clause I believe, but might be worth it. Liverpool had absolute joke defense, bought in VVD and now have 0 goals conceded in 3 games.
Umtiti- An option before he resigned

I literally think anyone else isn't that worth it.

Though I'm not a Uniited fan, however desperate they are for a CB, that's up to them to decide.

just to add the list of cb, the wall of godin can be the direct answer. people say ramos is the best defender, no for me is godin. not a long prospect but he is the best of the best. I see a minimum of 60 mil pounds release clause.

Good read.

Mourinho takes the biggest blame. There is NO excuse, not the spending, not the quality of the players.

Then the whole management along with some of our biggest stars. They share similar shame.

Some players just don't step up, do not deliver what they are paid for. The whole dilemma off the field is crazy too, Pogba and his transfer, his swagging bullshit (despite his potential and some world class, still too inconsistent), Mourinho and his "3 cups", the biggest example of press distraction and crap.

...

Our defend is one BIG JOKE for years, and this year it just shows more

I honestly think Manchester United started great the first 30 mins, if they took their chances it would have been 1-0 or 2-0 for them and we know what happens if Mourinho got his first goal how the match ends. But he didn't, so the match gone in a total different direction when they conceded the first goal.

because I believe in City he spent just around 250.

Check again. We even had entire thread dedicated to this. Also, truth of the matter is that if Mourinho leaves this season next manager will come and will buy CB's plus some additional players. 100% guarantee!

They had a successful year that they decided to only buy Mahrez

Yes, additional player to a team that has Sane on the bench! Also did he come cheap? No.

Let's not turn this into City topic but mate don't pull the cat by its tail. Guardiola has spent a lot. It is all recorded on files available on google with click of a button. Don't think, just look it up.

Well it's not the money that is the only factor here. Tottenham have
Sanchez, Vertonghen and Alderweireld. Now these guys all have played
for Ajax, so I may have some knowledge on this topic

Money is the factor. EPL clubs have a lot of it so they will always get at least 50% add on transfer fee for some bs reasons on top of the actual value for the player..

Bottom line: Mourinho is not up to his standards. He deserves the blame but he can't be the only one to be blamed. He set up the team good like it was mentioned above but team couldn't score out of so many chances. Should he get on the pitch and shoot those chances too? Spurs were shut down in first half. Top club should have finished those chances in the first half then locked the game but even if they couldn't score they shouldn't have conceded so many goals in one half from a team that wasn't playing better football. If it was by one goal, i would have said ok bad game plan but by 3 ! Players need to be hold responsible.

I remember from bio of Frank Lampard that he used to practice extra after the game when he didn't finish chances or had a bad game. Where is this sort of attitude? Why that douchebag self loving Lukaku doesn't stay after the game and practice his touch! His touch is so awful that i often wonder how is he playing pro and i am the one commenting! And people used to compare him to Drogba !! hahha give me a break!! Drogba used to score out of nothing literally out of nothing!

Agree with the lukaku thing, why not drop him at times and put sanchez upfront. just like what wenger did on that conte season 2016/17 when giroud gets dropped. pogba gets criticized all the time but lukaku and defenders can hide themselves behind pogba lol, come on.

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You want to see the reactions of the players to the defeat. Not to go bursting bubbles, but this was it. We lost last week too. You talk about playing the kids, and imply that they are ready. I'm going to doubt this based on two developments: a) McTominany starting above Herrera for a large part of last season, and b) Periera's Valencia loan being opposed by Mou. That suggests that if Mou has plays who can break into the first team, he doesn't want them on loan, he wants them playing. Both Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe, good as they are, were encouraged to go out on loan. That speaks volumes.

Same question I would like to ask you then: do you see any difference in the player's reaction in the two lost games (against Brighton and Spurs)? Are the players playing to their full ability? Are they fighting for every ball? The answer is a big NO. From defense to midfield to attack. The mentality is just NOT there. What I am looking for right there is the spirit and the reaction from such shameful losses. And that's what I mean.

McTominay is not even ManU brightest youth either. He's only in the team, because Mou likes huge player with defensive minded, just like Fellaini. Let me ask you this question: do you seriously think McTominay is better than Pereira or Timothy Fosu Mensah?

Back to the point of Mou keeping young players in the team, did you see Mou giving any chance to youth players in Chelsea? I mean, Chelsea have produced loads of top young talents in their academy, and look where they are now? None in the starting line-up back when Mou is in charge. He's never trust young players and he never will.

And if you are even following the games, where Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe are on loan, you will see how good they really are. Both are extremely comfortable on the ball, good passing, excellent positioning and defending skills. They are ready for games in top level. But Mou can't trust that, he cannot rely on some young players, who have no name, and have some problems with consistency and the ability to handle under pressure (typical for young players, but it will improve over a number of games). If you ask me right now, what is the ManU defense I am looking for, I will tell you I will field Shaw, Smalling/Jones/Baily, Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah. These are the guys who are giving 100% for ManU's shirt, they will fight for the coach if he shows faith in them. But look at where they are now, both Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah sent on loan, whilst we still keep the old Ashley Young and Damien.

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Martial at this point could go and I wouldn't care, he shows no will. Pogba does, and like it or not, is our best outfield player. He is who were are building our team around. To suggest moving him requires a full rebuild. To many United fans this sounds like a good thing, but from where I'm sitting it negates any progress we've made from the Moyes disaster.

I kind of agree with you here. Martial showed no respect nor anything for the manager. And Pogba, even after the magnificent WC, he still behaves like a kid, asking for salary increase, and so on. His performance on the pitch is so inconsistent, and it looks like he sets his heart to Barca. If someone wants to leave, let him leave. What's the point in keeping a player, who is no longer want to play for the club? Yes, we have made some progress after Moyes left, but is it all Mou's ability? He spent like more than $500M in the last 3 seasons. And look at where we are now? 3 games into the season with 2 lost and conceding 7 goals. Does Pogba worth the $100M tag? I know the market has been crazy after Neymar's transfer to PSG, but still it is quite pricy.

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"No coach or manager is greater than the club." I suppose that it is worth pointing out that when Fergie used this line to defend shipping out the Beckham's of the world, from his perspective he was the club. And I think that is where you're really going wrong here. You speak of United DNA, and certain formations like it's what we've always done. It's not. It's what Fergie did. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, then you have to acknowledge that the memory of Fergie and the amazing manager that he was is what is keeping us from accepting any other style. Is that harmful? It becomes harmful when fans reject any type of style except Fergie's, even when it wins them games. That led to the board not backing Mou, which could lead to a 2015-esque Chelsea season, which would be worse than Moyes.

I suppose you have been a life-long ManU fan. And I think you gotta know about ManU tradition and everything. I have followed ManU for more than 20 years, and I know what I am talking about. Result isn't everything. ManU used to lost against AcMilan 3-0 in the CL, and we lost both finals against Barca. We got knocked out by RealMadrid, when Nani getting sent off. I remembered all those things, and even when we are lost, no fans are complaining. The reason is ManU used to play with dignity and intent and fire in the heart. All of those things are now gone. Long gone. You are desperately trying to defend Mou for his outdated and ugly defensive style, just to get a few results. Tell me what do you see last season. After both legs against Valencia, do you think ManU deserve anything? Is Valencia the stronger team with better players? We were shocking in both games. I have never seen a worse ManU game in my life before. When you are the better team, with better players, playing in home ground, you play defensive, anti-soccer style? Is that how you are supposed to win games? These things just show how Mou is just not fit to be a ManU coach.

Also, Chelsea is Chelsea, and ManU is ManU. It's two different things. The Chelsea players have far too much rights and powers. The Chelsea owner listened to the players far more than the coach, and it leads to such result. I don't see ManU going on the same path as Chelsea 2015 season.

And at least I do prefer the way Mou allowed the team to go forward and attack in Spurs game, much better than the game against Brighton. It is a one off result, and if Mou changes his mentality, the result will come sooner than later, given the players fighting for him.

To be honest with you, I have nothing against Mou, I am just disgusted with the way he setting the team to play. It is dull, ugly and not effective. I rate games based on what I saw, not on what people tell me, or some "winning 3 PL cup" in the past. What Mou achieved in the past with Chelsea has nothing to do here.