@Dynast: sure they do.

The CLAIM is that the PL cannot compete. And yet, here they are, doing better than Barcelona against Bayern.

I have no issue saying that Real Madrid are one of, if not THE best team in the world right now. That doesn't mean the PL is crap, and it also doesn't mean that Barcelona are on a level footing with Madrid, right now. Again, the fact that 4 different English teams can get good results against Bayern Munich, of all teams, in the last 3 years, tells you everything you need to know about how good the average quality of the PL is.

That is: very, very high.

Again, by contrast, only Madrid, from Spain, have even DRAWN with Bayern in the last 4 years, let alone beat them.

Of course, one doesn't need to point all this out to most people, because it's just self-evident. Unfortunately, we here on FootyRoom's forum have to deal with someone who constantly insults and attacks the English league, and so we have to set him straight.

@Iraqi: See, that right there is what's wrong with this perception. English clubs 'mostly fail', in Europe? Really?

2005 CL winners: Liverpool.
2006 CL finalists: Arsenal
2007 CL finalists: Liverpool
2008 CL finalists: Chelsea, United (winner)
2009 CL finalists: United
2011 CL finalists: United
2012 CL winners: Chelsea
2013: EL winners: Chelsea

Yes, that list starts almost 10 years ago, but LOOK at that list. And then when you factor in the fact that last year an English team also got to the semis, you can hardly say that English teams have been 'failing'.

And it's also the case that at every single point in that last ten years, La Liga fan boys STILL would not admit that the PL was better. Not once. Ever. They denied it every single time, because they didn't like it.

Last year we had an all-Spanish CL final for the first time since, what, 2002? Hell, last year was the FIRST there was even a Spanish CL finalist other than Barcelona, since 2002.

These are the reasons we can assess a league vs a league, not just a single team vs a single team. Atletico Madrid, and a PL-assisted Real Madrid have helped make La Liga reach the same level as the PL. That's it.

That may not last very long, and it sure as heck doesn't make La Liga 'better'. Why? Because if 10 years of PL dominance wasn't enough to convince La Liga fans that the PL was better, then a couple of years of Madrid being important sure as hell isn't enough to convince PL fans.

This is why we keep having to clash. The issue has njever been about which league one LIKES more. It's about the refusal of some people to admit how good the PL actually is, because they don't like the English.

@Iraqi: See, that right there is what's wrong with this perception. English clubs 'mostly fail', in Europe? Really?

2005 CL winners: Liverpool.
2006 CL finalists: Arsenal
2007 CL finalists: Liverpool
2008 CL finalists: Chelsea, United (winner)
2009 CL finalists: United
2011 CL finalists: United
2012 CL winners: Chelsea
2013: EL winners: Chelsea

Yes, that list starts almost 10 years ago, but LOOK at that list. And then when you factor in the fact that last year an English team also got to the semis, you can hardly say that English teams have been 'failing'.

And it's also the case that at every single point in that last ten years, La Liga fan boys STILL would not admit that the PL was better. Not once. Ever. They denied it every single time, because they didn't like it.

Last year we had an all-Spanish CL final for the first time since, what, 2002? Hell, last year was the FIRST there was even a Spanish CL finalist other than Barcelona, since 2002.

These are the reasons we can assess a league vs a league, not just a single team vs a single team. Atletico Madrid, and a PL-assisted Real Madrid have helped make La Liga reach the same level as the PL. That's it.

That may not last very long, and it sure as heck doesn't make La Liga 'better'. Why? Because if 10 years of PL dominance wasn't enough to convince La Liga fans that the PL was better, then a couple of years of Madrid being important sure as hell isn't enough to convince PL fans.

This is why we keep having to clash. The issue has njever been about which league one LIKES more. It's about the refusal of some people to admit how good the PL actually is, just because they don't like the English.

@tiki: "German teams show every year more strengh than the English"

This statement alone is so untrue, and so ridiculous, that quoting you is all I need to do to prove my point.

@tiki: "German teams show every year more strengh than the English"

This statement alone is so untrue, and so ridiculous, that quoting you is all I need to do to prove my point.

@tiki: "German teams show every year more strengh than the English"

This statement alone is so untrue, and so ridiculous, that quoting you is all I need to do to prove my point.

One single German CL victory, since.... 2001. And guess who it was? The SAME TEAM as in 2001.

smh

Europa League :
2005 : Valencia winners
2006 : Sevilla winners
2007 : Sevilla - Espagnol in the final : Sevilla winners.
2010 : Atletico winners.
2012 : Bilbao - Atletico in the final : Atletico winners.
2014 : Sevilla winners.
6 Europa Leagues.

Champions League :
2006 : Barça winners.
2009 : Barça winners.
2011 : Barça winners.
2014 : Real Madrid winners, Atletico finalist.
4 CL.

You can add that both Real and Barça reached Semi-final of CL 6 times in a row this period, Barça from 2006 to 2013 at least semi finalists so whatever....
Your point prooves a litte that you ideas are a little '' has been '' because last year and this year result have some points in comon and really its not dificult to see.

Europa League :
2005 : Valencia winners
2006 : Sevilla winners
2007 : Sevilla - Espagnol in the final : Sevilla winners.
2010 : Atletico winners.
2012 : Bilbao - Atletico in the final : Atletico winners.
2014 : Sevilla winners.
6 Europa Leagues.

Champions League :
2006 : Barça winners.
2009 : Barça winners.
2011 : Barça winners.
2014 : Real Madrid winners, Atletico finalist.
4 CL.

You can add that both Real and Barça reached Semi-final of CL 6 times in a row this period, Barça from 2006 to 2013 at least semi finalists so whatever....
Your point prooves a litte that you ideas are a little '' has been '' because last year and this year result have some points in comon and really its not dificult to see.

Europa League :
2005 : Valencia winners
2006 : Sevilla winners
2007 : Sevilla - Espagnol in the final : Sevilla winners.
2010 : Atletico winners.
2012 : Bilbao - Atletico in the final : Atletico winners.
2014 : Sevilla winners.
6 Europa Leagues.

Champions League :
2006 : Barça winners.
2009 : Barça winners.
2011 : Barça winners.
2014 : Real Madrid winners, Atletico finalist.
4 CL.

You can add that both Real and Barça reached Semi-final of CL 6 times in a row this period, Barça from 2006 to 2013 at least semi finalists so whatever....
Your point prooves a litte that you ideas are a little '' has been '' because last year and this year result have some points in comon and really its not dificult to see.

May add that if it was not for referees 2006 CL and 2009 CL would have been also all English final , ( nothing but referees could stop Chelsea machine ) . :D Also 2011 when Van Persie was sent off against Barcelona . Uhhh so much crap has happened everytime spanish team won CL except last year .

Also , I strongly believe if Courtois did not play that semi final last year , Chelsea would have been in the final again . Got denied by our own loanie ...

Aslo i am going to write " ahhahahaah " at the claim that German teams are getting better out of english clubs everytime . and one more time hahahahahah

@iraqi: Yes, today is today.

Be careful about predicting tomorrow. Dortmund made the final two seasons ago. They will not do so again, this year, or next year...

I have a feeling Atletico will be the same way.

You just marked Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz.
Dont mark it if you hate being embarassed by 5th-8th Spanish teams success there.

You just marked first Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz. You have the right, to give it as an argument, so why i cant ?
Dont mark it if you hate being embarassed by 5th-8th Spanish teams success there.

How bad did you talked bad to other league, when we could see a clear favourite or 2 since the start, why cant you do this to EPL ?
Or weak league excuses are only APPRECIATED when its suits your actual dreams.

Well i just read Lodatz long post, and not even surprised, ignored all my questions and main arguments, and went looking for what could makes him have a supposed lead in a debate.
Can you see the diference ? I write to argue with you, you write for others to read and try all the silly ways to win the argument, why not answering the big lines i wrote ? Why always being silly picking up the staff you like and ignoring half of the embarassing things to your STUPID theories ?

First of all, Bale, Modric and Ronaldo all wanted to leave. And they only wanted to leave for REAL MADRID. Do you understand ? They had only one destination they wanted to go.
At the opposite, Sanchez, Di Maria and Ozil would have stayed if they were asked to, they have never secured their starting place despite good achievements.

Second, its good you finally admitted Madrid superiority, half of the road is done, now Barça will come with time.

And third as always you cant forget the Bayern-Barça game while it was a revenge to the 4-0 they got in 2011 or (2009)
They won fair and square but Barça isnt only 2 games, they won lately more international trophies than the whole PL.
And since you take trolling someone for accuracy, here is some of your accuracy to taste :

Man City - Tottenham 6-0
Tottenham - Man City 1-5

In the same year :

Man City - Barça 0-2

Barça - Man City 2-1

^Is this the accuracy you are talking about ? i've got some too.

NB : If you want to answer, make sure you dont take a small sentence that doesnt explain my main arguments and write a book about it, its a pitty i remind you same things each time just to show you how stubborn you are.

The only thing i can recognize in your work is your ability to express yourself in English, logical you are American born.

Anyway, i hope you understand that by trying to ruin my reputation ( i just dont care how people look a me ) you are ruining yours aswell even if you love be the main attraction, the PITCH RESULTS cant let you do this not me.

The game between reality and your dreams are so big that you'd better disappear, i will remind you the facts.

And since you will disapear for a period after reading this, Merry christmass, see you soon trolling my posts in the future...

Well i just read Lodatz long post, and not even surprised, ignored all my questions and main arguments, and went looking for what could makes him have a supposed lead in a debate.
Can you see the diference ? I write to argue with you, you write for others to read and try all the silly ways to win the argument, why not answering the big lines i wrote ? Why always being silly picking up the staff you like and ignoring half of the embarassing things to your STUPID theories ?

First of all, Bale, Modric and Ronaldo all wanted to leave. And they only wanted to leave for REAL MADRID. Do you understand ? They had only one destination they wanted to go.
At the opposite, Sanchez, Di Maria and Ozil would have stayed if they were asked to, they have never secured their starting place despite good achievements.

Second, its good you finally admitted Madrid superiority, half of the road is done, now Barça will come with time.

And third as always you cant forget the Bayern-Barça game while it was a revenge to the 4-0 they got in 2011 or (2009)
They won fair and square but Barça isnt only 2 games, they won lately more international trophies than the whole PL.
And since you take trolling someone for accuracy, here is some of your accuracy to taste :

Man City - Tottenham 6-0
Tottenham - Man City 1-5

In the same year :

Man City - Barça 0-2

Barça - Man City 2-1

^Is this the accuracy you are talking about ? i've got some too.

NB : If you want to answer, make sure you dont take a small sentence that doesnt explain my main arguments and write a book about it, its a pitty i remind you same things each time just to show you how stubborn you are.

The only thing i can recognize in your work is your ability to express yourself in English, logical you are American born.

Anyway, i hope you understand that by trying to ruin my reputation ( i just dont care how people look a me ) you are ruining yours aswell even if you love be the main attraction, the PITCH RESULTS cant let you do this not me.

The gap between reality and your dreams are so big that you'd better disappear, i will remind you the facts.

And since you will disapear for a period after reading this, Merry christmass, see you soon trolling my posts in the future...

@tiki:

Oh good lord.

"You just marked first Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz. You have the right, to give it as an argument, so why i cant ?"

Why do you even ask, especially when I already pointed out how only ONE of the PL successes was in the EL, whereas over half of yours were? Like, did you not understand that was the ENTIRE point I was making.

YOU point to EL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of Spain's league. I point to CL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of England's league.

Now, I am going to ask you very simply, to make sure you understand the question: you do know that the CL is the superior competition, right?

Get back to me when you understand what means for your entire argument.

@tiki:

Oh good lord.

"You just marked first Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz. You have the right, to give it as an argument, so why i cant ?"

Why do you even ask, especially when I already pointed out how only ONE of the PL successes was in the EL, whereas over half of yours were? Like, did you not understand that was the ENTIRE point I was making.

YOU point to EL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of Spain's league. I point to CL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of England's league.

Now, I am going to ask you very simply, to make sure you understand the question: you do know that the CL is the superior competition, right?

Get back to me when you understand what means for your entire argument.

@tiki:

Oh good lord.

"You just marked first Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz. You have the right, to give it as an argument, so why i cant ?"

Why do you even ask, especially when I already pointed out how only ONE of the PL successes was in the EL, whereas over half of yours were? Like, did you not understand that was the ENTIRE point I was making.

YOU point to EL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of Spain's league. I point to CL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of England's league.

Now, I am going to ask you very simply, to make sure you understand the question: you do know that the CL is the superior competition, right?

Get back to me when you understand what means for your entire argument.

"Dont mark it if you hate being embarassed by 5th-8th Spanish teams success there."

LOL. Just... LOL.

@tiki:

Oh good lord.

"You just marked first Chelsea as EL winner what a hypocrite you are Lodatz. You have the right, to give it as an argument, so why i cant ?"

Why do you even ask, especially when I already pointed out how only ONE of the PL successes was in the EL, whereas over half of yours were? Like, did you not understand that was the ENTIRE point I was making.

YOU point to EL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of Spain's league. I point to CL victories and dominance to highlight the superiority of England's league.

Now, I am going to ask you very simply, to make sure you understand the question: you do know that the CL is the superior competition, right?

Get back to me when you understand what means for your entire argument.

"Dont mark it if you hate being embarassed by 5th-8th Spanish teams success there."

LOL. Just... LOL.

"How bad did you talked about other leagues, when we could see a clear favourite or 2 since the start, why cant you do this to EPL ?"

Because the PL hasn't been a 2-horse race since 2004.

It's taken SINCE 2004 for the Spanish league to be anything OTHER than a 2-horse race.

You just don't get it, do you? You don't know what a league IS.

" ignored all my questions and main arguments"

Which were? Please feel free to enlighten me, since I responded to practically every single thing you said. You do understand that there is this whole scroll button where people can go back and actually read what was written, right? You understand that you can't just simply make things up about the conversation you are currently in, as though you'll get away with it, right?

Oh, and look, then you proceed to answer NOT ONE of the things that I said in response to you, and instead start talking about Tottenham. ALWAYS Tottenham. WHy? Are they relevant to what we were discussing?

No, they're not. You're just being a child, because you know damn well that I'm right, and you know damn well that you've got nothing to respond to.

I will go back to this one, simple fact:

9 PL finalists, across 4 teams, in the Champions League, with 3 different teams winning it, over 10 years.

3 final appearances for Barcelona, the team which utterly crushed the entire Spanish league into oblivion from the moment Rijkaard took over to the moment Mourinho won the league with a record number of points, over 10 years.

And during that time? During that entire decade where Barcelona were knocked OUT by the PL Top 4 more times thatn they made it to a final, you REFUSED to admit that the PL was the better league.

You have literally no business telling someone else that they are biased.

Oh, and one more, because I know how much you love it when I take statements of yours that your entire argument relies upon, and explain why that statement is wrong/stupid:

"try all the silly ways to win the argument,"

Yes, like providing facts, evidence and thoughtful analysis. That IS generally how good ideas prevail over bad ideas, and good arguments defeat bad arguments.

Thank you for spotting it.

QQ

"Well i did the job for you, try to answer the lines marked clearly rather than other things, chose to respond to all my point rather than picking what you like, it becomes stupid no need to finish reading..."

Okay, so this didn't make sense in English, so I ran this through Google Translate, and it came out with:

"Well, I don't have any answers to any of the things that you say, Lodatz, but I'm not going to admit it, because if I admit it then it means that I've been wrong for years now, and should have listened to you. I would rather just pretend as though I am in control, here, because that way I can try to get out of this with some dignity intact. Please don't make me look any more stupid.".

+1, tiki. Well said.

"Well i did the job for you, try to answer the lines marked clearly rather than other things, chose to respond to all my point rather than picking what you like, it becomes stupid no need to finish reading..."

Okay, so this didn't make sense in English, so I ran this through Google Translate, and it came out with:

"Well, I don't have any answers to any of the things that you say, Lodatz, but I'm not going to admit it, because if I admit it then it means that I've been wrong for years now, and should have listened to you. I would rather just pretend as though I am in control, here, because that way I can try to get out of this with some dignity intact. Please don't make me look any more stupid.".

+1, tiki. Well said.

Now QQ.