Damn tiki + 1, spot on!
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Damn tiki + 1, spot on!
@Sunflash Then you could upvote me as well. I actually also did the research, just so happen than quikzyyy was doing the same at the same time and posted his results before me. XD But seriously, I think his is better. Would be nice to compare it with other player sometime though. ;)
@tiki:
@quikzyyy: Don't know how they do these calculations, but I've seen this today
Some of your calculations are shady, for instance: "1st goal against Chelsea - 3 points" when the game ended 3-0. It's close to impossible to measure those stats.
As you said, it's close to impossible to measure those stats, specially when the game ends 4:2 but the striker scored twice. When a striker scores the first one, and then the game ends like 2/3 :0, I calculated it like it was the winning one, because it changed the outcome and it was definitely more important than scoring 2 goals in 90th minute when game is already done. But there are lot of combinations and lot of "if" which can end in different way. :)
@quikzyy: good stuffs mate!!!
@tiki: well said.
For me it's the same, Hazard's influences on the game play is NOT only based on stats, in most games Chelsea play, I support the weaker team, just because people love underdogs. Everytime Hazard has the ball in a good position to attack, I feel the threat... And that's scary
@quikzyy: good stuffs mate!!!
@tiki: well said.
Lot of good points and stats being thrown around here. It seems I was incorrect in some of my assumptions about Lukaku.
One final thing though, the Manchester Evening News (who drink United's kool-aid like no one else btw) threw out this video today:
I can't help but not be shocked by some of that. I know, stats aren't everything, and unlike the video, I'm not attempting to say that Herrera is better, but it does highlight that Kante really hasn't had as dominating a season as everyone seems to think.
And yet we've all probably rather have Kante in team, or am I wrong?
Kante / herrera
Tackles: 110 / 76
Interceptions: 76 / 75
Successful take ons: 36 / 26
Kante / herrera
Tackles: 110 / 76
Interceptions: 76 / 75
Successful take ons: 36 / 26
Interceptions: 77 / 79
@Tiki
But at the same time, you can't discredit what men like Lukaku and Kane do. The game is ultimately won by whoever scores more goals, and finding a consistent goal-scorer is incredibly difficult in the world of football. How many strikers can you bank on scoring 20+ league goals in a 38 game season? Barcelona and Real Madrid fans have been spoiled by looking at Messi and Ronaldo's consistent 50 goal seasons, but how about other players in Spain or in England?
These are the players in England and Spain who have scored 20+ league goals more than once since 2010.
Benzema (21, 24)
Griezmann (22, 22)
Neymar (22, 24)
Negredo (20, 25)
Falcao (24, 28)
van Persie (30, 26)
Aguero (20, 23, 26, 24)
Suarez (23, 31, 40, 24)
Kane (21, 25, **20***)
Costa (27, 20)
In a span of seven seasons, the most any striker could muster is four (Aguero and Suarez).
It's ridiculously hard to find a good goalscorer in the world. That's why they're so revered. Out of this list of 10 players, 3 play for Real/Barca (unobtainable by any other team) and van Persie/Falcao/Negredo can no longer function at the highest level, which leaves only Griezmann, Aguero, Kane, and Costa. It's not a coincidence that each of the top teams in England and Spain all have a consistent 20+ goal-scorer amidst them.
You just can't compete at the highest level without a player with that kind of ability. Just look at Arsenal, who have been without a top striker since van Persie left them. Or United in the past four seasons (short-term solution in Zlatan doesn't count).
Lukaku is almost amidst this list as he scored 18 and 25 these past two seasons (only in the league). Him and Harry Kane have been the two most prolific scorers in England this season. Matter of fact, Lukaku has scored 40% of Everton's league goals this season (50% if you include assists). That's a ridiculous number!
And I still don't see Lukaku as a top 5 forward in the world nor a monster team material. Just like Benteke. They do not impact the build up that much and therefore they aren't impacting midlefield war that wins games nor possession. Their role is important tho.
Each player does their role, and Lukaku's is no less significant than Hazard's. If Hazard did not have Diego Costa, all that magic would be useless because there would be no one to finish the final product of that play. A consistent striker that you can place your trust upon is priceless at the top level.
Of course I'm not trying to discredit men like Hazard and Kante. They also perform roles that are almost irreplaceable. But let's not discredit the top goal-scorers either.
I don't watch United that much anymore, but I can confirm that Herrera was a top midfielder in La Liga when he was with Bilbao.
Herrera was amazing at Bilbao and he still is a great player.
Appearances 26 Goals 1 Wins 14 Losses 2
Assists 6
Passes 1,914
Passes Per Match 73.62
Big Chances Created 4
Crosses 45
Cross Accuracy 38%
Through Balls 11
Accurate Long Balls 105
Kante
Appearances 32 Goals 1 Wins 24 Losses 5
Assists 1
Passes 1,964
Passes Per Match 61.38
Big Chances Created 2
Crosses 9
Cross Accuracy 11%
Through Balls 7
Accurate Long Balls 130
Better overall stats than Kante as a Center Mid player.
Herrera was amazing at Bilbao and he still is a great player.
Appearances 26 Goals 1 Wins 14 Losses 2
Assists 6
Passes 1,914
Passes Per Match 73.62
Big Chances Created 4
Crosses 45
Cross Accuracy 38%
Through Balls 11
Accurate Long Balls 105
Kante
Appearances 32 Goals 1 Wins 24 Losses 5
Assists 1
Passes 1,964
Passes Per Match 61.38
Big Chances Created 2
Crosses 9
Cross Accuracy 11%
Through Balls 7
Accurate Long Balls 130
Herrera was amazing at Bilbao and he still is a great player.
Appearances 26 Goals 1 Wins 14 Losses 2
Assists 6
Passes 1,914
Passes Per Match 73.62
Big Chances Created 4
Crosses 45
Cross Accuracy 38%
Through Balls 11
Accurate Long Balls 105
Kante
Appearances 32 Goals 1 Wins 24 Losses 5
Assists 1
Passes 1,964
Passes Per Match 61.38
Big Chances Created 2
Crosses 9
Cross Accuracy 11%
Through Balls 7
Accurate Long Balls 130
Better overall stats than Kanta as a Center Mid player.
Well, to be fair, you can't really compare Herrera and Kante, Herrera is much better at setting up his team-mate and at opening up the play while Kante is way more useful to start counter-attack. As a big fan of quick play football, I like Kante much better but that just me. Herrera also have a bit of a tendency to being dirty IMO so there's that as well.
Well, to be fair, you can't really compare Herrera and Kante, Herrera is much better at setting up his team-mate and at opening up the play while Kante is way more useful to start counter-attack. As a big fan of quick play football, I like Kante much better but that just me.
Well, to be fair, you can't really compare Herrera and Kante, Herrera is much better at setting up his team-mate and at opening up the play while Kante is way more useful to start counter-attack. As a big fan of quick play football, I like Kante much better but that just me. Herrera also have a bit of a tendency to being dirty IMO.
Well some things Kante does better and others Herrera does better, they have similar but not the same roles.
Herrera:
Tackles 205
Tackle Success 72%
Blocked Shots 38
Interceptions 150
Clearances 88
Headed Clearance 27
Recoveries 437
Duels Won 420
Duels Lost 349
Successful 50/50s 72
Aerial Battles Won 43
Aerial Battles Lost 35
Errors Leading To Goal 0
Kante:
Tackles 285
Tackle Success 69%
Blocked Shots 13
Interceptions 232
Clearances 97
Headed Clearance 40
Recoveries 582
Duels Won 454
Duels Lost 386
Successful 50/50s 81
Aerial Battles Won 57
Aerial Battles Lost 97
Errors Leading To Goal 0
And yet we've all probably rather have Kante in team, or am I wrong?
Not disagreeing with that. Just attempting to show some contrast on a CM's stats, to show that Kante's season has not been the lightning strike everyone is making it out to be.
Also agree completely with Dynastian.
Personally I would prefer to have a good defence over 1 good goal scorer but in order to win a title you need both.
Congrates Chelsea fans. Looks like you've found yourself the next coming of Claude Makélélé!
@Madridista11
I thought Essien was a much better player than Kante. :/
Do Chelsea fans agree?
@Madridista11
I though Essien was a much better player than Kante. :/
Do Chelsea fans agree?
I'm talking about play style, but I do think that Essien is the bigger Chelsea player.
Definitely! I'd much rather have the Bison in my midfield than Kante. No slight on Kante, it's just that Essien was terrific when he was fit.
Essien was a great player but kante is something else, he runs full 90 minutes, his tackling is superb, he is literally everywhere on the pitch he covers alot of distance which is quite important for me.
Okay, so maybe I wanted Hazard to get this award but Kante thoroughly, thoroughly deserves this. He has such an incredible work-rate that is so easily overlooked. You sometimes just forget how many crucial interceptions he makes. It is basically his hard work that allows the whole team to play so effectively. Finally he gets the overdue recognition he deserves.
Well done mate, you deserve this one.
Okay, so maybe I wanted Hazard to get this award but Kante thoroughly, thoroughly deserves this award. He has such an incredible work-rate that is so easily overlooked. You sometimes just forget how many crucial interceptions he makes. It is basically his hard work that allows the whole team to play so effectively. Finally he gets the overdue recognition he deserves.
Well done mate, you deserve this one.