Who would you rather have as EPL champion this year between those two? And why?

@chelsea8:

Can't win an argument so starts insulting hahahah.

Have fun on Thursdays. If only someone could have predicted this.

oh wait...

This thread was for last season though Lodatz, when Chelsea and Totteham were still battling it out and Chelsea was ahead. I really don't get why you bring this up today. :( I know its say the thread is 1 year but that mean its anywhere between 1 year old and 1 day and 1 year and 11 month. Also, Chelsea8 haven't been very active recently, I doubt you will get any response from him.

I won't weep over the lack of response from so swell a guy as chelsea8.

But really my response was to tuan_jinn. Not at him personally, but because of the way he arrived at his opinion.

Sometimes on FR, and in this thread certainly, quality of argument is ignored because of a desire to cling to conventional wisdom. Y'know, the sort of thing which "everyone knows". It's whatever narrative a given community is disposed to accept, usually because it suits the biases of the prominent members, and I think it sometimes gets in the way of valuable discussion.

Like I said, I am not aiming this at tuan in a personal sense, as though I'm trying to define him by it, or say he's the One Doing This. Itt just happens he's the one who said it here. But so often I see lots of people voice similar thoughts, usually by referencing what "everyone knows" etc..

Like English players being overrated. Like Chelsea of course being better than Tottenham (ultimately, solely because there are more Chelsea fans on FR than Tottenham fans). Like Harry Kane being a one-season wonder, or a one-dimensional striker. These things turn out to be wrong, but how can this be? How can "everyone" be wrong?

Well, it's because what "everyone knows" is all too often little more than what "someone said", or what someone wants everyone to believe. Truth becomes a popularity contest, not a weighing of opinions and evidence. Just look at how this very thread played out, with cheap little insults towards one team, and then when the (only at the time) fan of the other team stands up for them, the quality of argument is thrown out of the window because there are more people who are biased in favor of Chelsea than otherwise.

You may think: is this a problem? I say yes, because unfortunately the effect and consequence over time is that it enables the behavior of those who simply seek to sway popular opinion in order to be dicks to someone personally, or who hide behind popular opinion in order to try and win an argument. And then the forum starts to deteriorate, because everything is now decided by who can get the most people to take their side, and that never ends well, leaving bad feelings.

People walk away, after enough of that. And no, I'm not just talking about me.

Heck, it's probably even the case that "everyone knows" a whole ton of stuff about Lodatz, so maybe not many will agree with what I just said. Again, though, maybe what "everyone knows" is, once more, simply what someone wants you to believe.

Que sera sera.

Either way, after all the abuse that has been rained on me by some of the asshole Chelsea fans around here, I don't feel terrible about using the fact that Chelsea failed to get back into the Top 4 once they had midweek football again to illustrate my point about what "everyone knows". O:)

@Lodatz I agree I'm one of those who hate when people say "everyone know" or "majority of people agree with my point". If you got faith in your opinion, it shouldn't matter what the majority think, it shouldn't sway and shouldn't be an argument to sway other. Tuan certainly not the guy who use that kind of talk the most though, so I don't really worry about it too much in this occasion personally. I do understand your point. ;)

Did everyone missed Spurs winning last year for this topic? Oh wait they didn't but he comes to a 1 year old thread even after his team didn't win jack...Ok.

Call me when you win something or when you stop being the number 3 club in your own city.

Okay. You do realize that if we update the given table (the one which showed that Spurs were the best team over the previous two seasons) with this season's results, City are now first with 232 points, Spurs second with 224, and United third with 212, and Chelsea tied for fourth with Liverpool on 201.

Number 3 in London? That's a good one, chum. ;)

Have fun on Thursdays. At least you won't be skipping a year like you did when you came 10th.

@Emobot:

See how what LOLazo said has nothing to do with the thread's argumentation, and instead is trying to bring Arsenal into it so he can try to get Gunners fans on his side. He's one of the assholes I was talking about.

You came back after 1 year that Chelsea won the title as if you have any right to claim anything here, you won jack shit as usual and yet you're more happy about Chelsea not being in top 4 than your own club being in top 4 because everyone knows that you're smaller and just worse.

You're not the top team in London, you never won the league yet, you beat Chealsea at the Brigde once in 25 years, your fanbase is smaller than of Chelsea and Arsenal, you got nothing. Ok you will play CL again, get eliminated and that's it.

Like I said, who won the league for this thread? Not Spurs. When did Spurs win PL? Never. Which are the 2 biggest clubs in London? Chelsea and Arsenal. Who has the most fans in London? Chelsea and Arsenal. Who was the most fans world wide? Chelsea and Arsenal.

I can only see you coming here after one year very butthurt, with no real purpose but to leash out your own frustrations...become relevant first talk later, your'e the asshole.

You came back after 1 year that Chelsea won the title as if you have any right to claim anything here,

Well, because you only won the title because you came 10th the season before, and thus had no European football to worry about, and were able to use the same 12 players for the whole season.

Remember?

Meanwhile, this season, you had to play two games a week again, and slipped back out of the Top 4.

yet you're more happy about Chelsea not being in top 4 than your own club being in top 4 because everyone knows that you're smaller and just worse.

Ah yes. What "everyone knows". That old classic. ;)

You're not the top team in London,

Really? We've come above you and Arsenal twice out of the last 3 years, and have made Top 4 in all of them. In both you and the Goons case, you've only made it once each.

I guess you just don't know what "top" means?

your fanbase is smaller than of Chelsea and Arsenal,

Oh well that clearly matters.

Ok you will play CL again, get eliminated and that's it.

Like every single year you've ever been in the CL except one?

I can only see you coming here after one year very butthurt,

How am I butthurt, when my team is still younger and better than yours, I clearly won the argument about why Chelsea won the title, and Spurs are the best team in London?

When Spurs beat you 3-1 last month, did you just tell yourself that your team really won that game, too?

with no real purpose but to leash out your own frustrations

Yeah, I'm so very frustrated with the complete vindication of my argument. It's not like I created an account to harass someone who was more talented and knowledgeable than me in another community. Imagine that. ;)

become relevant first talk later

LOL I kick your ass every time I come back, genius. You're lucky I don't spend all my time here.

We won the title because we were the best team, something that Spurs never have been, playing in CL or not playing in CL :)

The rest is you trying to fight but since you can't win jack nobody cares about you...play the CL, if you're lucky enough to see a Final, you will see the name of Chelsea written on that Cup :)

We won the title because we were the best team...

...of those playing only one game a week.

This year, of the teams playing 2 games a week, you came 5th. :)

The rest is you trying to fight but since you can't win jack nobody cares about you..

You didn't even care about Chelsea until you hopped from supporting Arsenal, so really you don't want to go there.

if you're lucky enough to see a Final, you will see the name of Chelsea written on that Cup

Well, if we do, it won't be because we were bought out by an oil mobster to whom the club is over a billion squid in debt. It'll be because we grew our club up using smart business, on-field improvement, excellent youth scouting, a fan-base attracted to good football instead of plastic money, and a (hopefully) revolutionary manager.

So, I suspect I'll be okay with it. ;)

It's funny how you're incapable of giving Spurs any credit. Is that because you're fully in denial, or is it just because I support them?

So what if we came 5th? Doesn't change the fact that you won jack shit and that Chelsea won the league 2 times in the past 4-5 years :)

You play in the PL, Chelsea won the PL, you play in CL, Chelsea won CL, that's the difference :)

You were never the part of the big 4 in the league anyway, and you never will be, like I said, better talk when you can back it up cause right now no matter what happen both Chelsea and Arsenal are still looking down at your little team :)

So what if we came 5th?

Then that means you were not as good as the teams which came 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. All of those teams were better than you this year, and all of them played the same amount of European football as you.

Doesn't change the fact that you won jack **** and that Chelsea won the league 2 times in the past 4-5 years

I never said it did, and truly under Mourinho you were the best team in the land. But then, your squad acted like children, got your (best ever) coach fired, your team came 10th, 7 places below Spurs. And then, they had no midweek football, so they managed to win the title by having no injuries, only 1 place ahead of Spurs. And now?

Back to being 2 places below Spurs.

And you still don't get it. My, my....

that's the difference :)

No, the difference is that you haven't made the Top 4 whilst also playing European football in any of the last 3 years, and Spurs have done so in all of them.

You were never the part of the big 4 in the league anyway,

That was true 10 years ago.

and you never will be

LOL

better talk when you can back it up cause right now no matter what happen both Chelsea and Arsenal are still looking down at your little team

Who will have a larger stadium than either of you, next season. :)

COYS mate. Good luck hanging onto Hazard again.

Again, you think that by trashtalking someone's team you will get respect I suggest that you go outside a bit and live life and learn how it works, don't lie to yourself you didn't come here for respect but to fight...

I don't care that Chelsea is 5th this season because last one when this topic was made, Chelsae won the league, you care more about Chelsea being 5th than about your own team, I didn't go around the internet trashtalking Spurs for not winnig the league that's another difference from a big team and a small team mentality but you do exactly what a small club's bitter fan does...

Chelsea is just a bigger club and that bothers you, that's why out of nowhere you came to trashtalk.
Sorry that you can't be relevant nowhere not even in the city where your team plays in where you have less support than Chelsea and Arsenal, nobody is to be blamed for that but your own club, you can try to celebrate now like you won something while Chelsea is once again in the FA Cup final this year your season is over and yet another "next year we got this" false hope kicked in...

Again, you think that by trashtalking someone's team you will get respect

But I'm not trash-talking. I present facts. All the facts which I present are true. You're the one who is saying crap like: "your team will never be anything neener!!"

don't lie to yourself you didn't come here for respect but to fight...

There was nothing aggressive in my conduct until you showed up and started being a whiny little turd about Spurs again. Funny how that cause and effect keep happening...

I don't care that Chelsea is 5th this season because last one when this topic was made, Chelsae won the league,

Yes, but the discussion was about why they won the league. My original argument is completely sound, and was born out by the results this year. I mean, I tried to explain to you, but you refused to listen to me, and now, 12 months later, I didn't even poke at you, I simply suggested that tuan_jinn could update his idea of what "everyone knows".

Chelsea did win the league. They did so because they had the enormous advantage of having only one game a week throughout October and November, allowing them to gain a massive early lead by Christmas with the same 12 men every week.

Remember when I told you that, like, a year ago?

I didn't go around the internet trashtalking Spurs for not winnig the league

lol wtf? You spent half your time trash-talking Spurs.

that's another difference from a big team and a small team mentality but you do exactly what a small club's bitter fan does...

But once again, my main concern is that you understand that I was right, and you were wrong. The reason why is because, hopefully, when you come to accept this, you will cease to challenge, insult and irritate me so much when I'm trying to explain things to you, and we can all have Nicer Things.

Chelsea is just a bigger club and that bothers you,

Why would it bother me?

Sorry that you can't be relevant nowhere not even in the city where your team plays in where you have less support than Chelsea and Arsenal,

We broke the PL all-time attendance record 4 times this year. :)

I also present facts:

You won nothing while Chelsea won the league, thats bigger than being in top 4. We won the league multiple times, playing in CL and also not playing in CL, beats whatever you were doing all this time, playing in Europe or not :)

Your club has less fans in London and less fans world wide, your club never won the league. Chelsea won the league and is the only club from London that has won the Champions league.

Now what? 5th place omg? Being a Spurs fans is far worse than being 5th.

I also present facts:

Yes, but they are imprecise. For example:

You won nothing while Chelsea won the league,

...because Chelsea only played one game a week, because they came 10th the year before. See how this extra information allows you to place your imprecise fact into clearer context?

thats bigger than being in top 4.

I agree. It doesn't change the fact that Spurs are a better team than Chelsea right now, and that the only reason you thought otherwise is because you failed to incorporate the extra contextual information which I shared with you, and didn't realize how much of that title win was thanks to being so terrible the season beforehand.

It's funny how adverse you are to admitting this, even to yourself, and even when the first season back in the CL you not only failed to win the title, but also failed to even get back into the Top 4. You deluded yourself into thinking they were better/more dominant than they were, and you reacted poorly when I pointed this out to you.

I'm sorry I hurt you. I just wanted you to understand your folly....

Your club has less fans in London and less fans world wide,

Where do you think you're even getting this information from? I mean, world-wide I can believe, but considering we, again, broke the all-time PL attendance record at least 4 times this season, whereas the Brudge had pretty dodgy attendance all year, it seems rather strange that you think you have a firm case to make here. ;)

your club never won the league.

In the PL era. Chelsea never won it either, until Abramovic. That oil gangster we were talking about earlier.

Chelsea won the league and is the only club from London that has won the Champions league.

Well, for upwards of a billions pounds in debt, I should think so too. I guess the only question would be: why only once?

Being a Spurs fans is far worse than being 5th.

Okay bud. :) Tell yourself that as long as you can until you jump to the Etihad.

We broke the PL all-time attendance record 4 times this year. :)

Haha, still smaller than Arsenal and Chelsea, Wembley is not even your real home :D

"London
The big smoke is home to the most Gooners in the country it seems, with Arsenal boasting 44% of all
the football traffic search traffic.
Surprisingly, Manchester United are the second most popular team in Greater London, followed by a three-way split of Chelsea, Liverpool, and West Ham (Spurs fail to reach even the top five)"

https://thefootballfaithful.com/most-supported-club-uk/

"Tottenham are a long, long way behind their other 'big six' rivals in every department. They have far fewer fans and see far less engagement than every other team at the top of the table. This shows even further how much they are punching above their weight."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/03/14/manchester-united-still-comfortably-biggest-club-england-will/

Tell me more how you're a bigger club? Titles = no, Fans = no ...

Yes, but they are imprecise. For example:

For example what? Fact number 1 that beats all your facts: Chelsea won a league title. Done. Does it matter if we won it by 1 point or by 100? No. It's a pure fact that beats all of your silly attempts to somehow present a fact. You get it? Your team won 0 Silverware.
You should stop playing in CL if you think that would help you but we both know that no matter what happens you just can't win the league, like I said, Chelsea has won the league both playing in Europe and not playing in Europe, while Spurs hasn't won at all no matter what and that fact beats all of your facts.

Haha, still smaller than Arsenal and Chelsea, Wembley is not even your real home :

Then let me remind you that our new home, next season, is bigger than yours. :) Still doesn't change the fact that we broke the attendance records multiple times. Let's see you do that.

https://thefootballfaithful.com/most-supported-club-uk/

What a shame that article cites a study which measures internet traffic, from around the country, and doesn't actually reveal any data whatsoever about the number of fans from London of these teams. For example, it also says that Manchester United are bigger in London than Chelsea anyway, which is hilarious in terms of implications for your argument. ;)

As for your other link, it makes no difference, as no-one else had attendance figures like we did, this season, not even Manchester United. You don't seem to understand this.

Tell me more how you're a bigger club? Titles = no, Fans = no ...

I never said we were. I said we're a better team. :)

It's always so very telling how much effort you put into trying to misrepresent and lie about the person with whom you're 'discussing'. Why are you so incapable of addressing what is actually said, instead of whatever you want to have been said?