I'm responding to this post match interview by Pep Guardiola, following the win against Barcelona at Etihad by the score of 3-1

https://www.360nobs.com/2016/11/guardiola-beat-best-team-world/

................................................................

(clears throat)

Will you guys stop making such a big deal of this? Will the fact that Pep managed to beat Barcelona with a team as talented as Manchester City completely make us forget that he's spent all that time in Germany without a single European trophy? And Barca is NOT the same Barca of 2009, 2010. This Barcelona team is not even a shadow of that team. If Puyol, Xavi, and Iniestas's Barca was rated a 10 out of 10. This Barcelona today is barely a 7. Their defense is laughable, the midfield is a joke that just doesn't seem to end. Without Iniesta, it's comparable to the midfield of Liverpool, and PSG's mid would be rated much higher. The partnership of Neymar, Messi, and Suarez, meaning the forwards is the only part of this team that would be reminiscent of 'THAT' Barcelona. Today's Barcelona is a mediocre midfield and an old defense being carried by the forward - where Suarez should be considered the MVP.

Beating this Barcelona team does not in any way, shape or form, mean that you have beaten the best team in Europe or the World. No, you didn't even beat the best third team. That is Atletico Madrid. The second and the first, this is arguable are Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. You look at their squad, you look at their results, you look at their game. These two are the most complete, most talented, best talent distributed teams, from veterans to youngens trying to break into the team. From the GK's, to the defenders, the midfielders, and the attackers. All with adequate backup, in both teams where each of their subs would walk into almost any starting 11 in Europe. The only team that can challenge these two is Atletico Madrid, not the current edition of Barcelona, who conceded 4 against Celta Vigo, happily settled for a point when Atletico visited Nou Camp, and lost to Alavez in that very same stadium. The stadium that Barcelona of half a decade ago made every other team shake in fear. So Manchester City beat them, along with all those other teams, big deal. There is only one unbeaten team remaining in Europe so far this season. That's Real Madrid.

Now, let's not get the over-hyping engines take this, what has already happened a few times already this season, to never ending ridiculous heights, the "Masterclass of Pep Guardiola" (Bleacher Report titlet). Why isn't the manager of Alaves getting such treatment? They beat Barcelona in Camp Nou, as did Celta Vigo. I don't want to listen to people bragging Pep is a great manager again, whom I consider to be average at best. Brings nothing to the team, the Steve Jobs of Football Managers, nothing but hipster mannerisms and clothes. When you beat the best, Pep & City, may you be showered with such recognition. You can say it as much as like Guardiola, kiss all phantom Barca rear you like, but no, your beloved Barcelona is not even part of the conversation of the best team in Europe. That title currently belongs to Real Madrid, with Bayern Munich following closely behind.

And this brings me to my next point.

Will Guardiola ever stop kissing phantom Barca rear?

When he was at Bayern, he said Barca is the best. And Bayern was at the same level as Barca. He's doing it now at City. He's so pathetic.

How can any team be happy to have him as a coach when all he does is constantly profess how Barcelona is greater than any club on the planet, including the one he manages. It is one thing to remain loyal to the club you support, grew up with.. but it is completely another to remain loyal to the club you're currently SERVING!

I don't understand how media allows him to talk this way. I don't understand the fans of the club he manages. I don't understand any of this. He's not even a good manager, the Steve Jobs of Football Managers.

I do not understand people. These people. The cultists. You guys are.. your own little universe.

Critical thinking be damned.

I read everything you wrote but after "He's not even a good manager" I had enough. We have our own universe, you have your own as well as it looks like.

Amerr...dude...

Barca is still a top 3 team in the world. Pep has to kiss their ass because he played/managed there. Every manager does that with their old team because they still kind of view themselves as part of the club, and why not? Does Mourinho still see himself a bit as Chelsea manager? I have no doubt. Barca did win La Liga last season, let's not forget. I'm not saying Pep isn't a complete fucknugget, but he's still a great manager.

There are a few universes that fans create. There is a collective agreement by people who use their brains, a collective agreement by the 13-year olds and younger, and various individual agreement that are more often than not contingent on team support.

Yours seems to be a mix of all three, but mostly the latter. We agree and disagree, but little to no part of me agrees with you here.

Cliffnotes:
Pep has proved that he can win leagues consistently, and win CL's occasionally. There is literally no other manager in the world with that kind of track record aside from Anchelloti and (formerly) Mourinho.

Barcelona will probably make the CL semi-finals again, and probably win La Liga again. This apparently does not make them a top 3 team, despite a general consensus that the top of La Liga has the best teams in the world.

The manager of Alves does not get such treatment because beating Barcelona, while impressive, does not win a title, or in their case, even a CL spot. As the men who play Dark Souls would say "git gud."

Your post is a rant that a 10-year old Madrista would be proud of, and the lack of actual evidence for what you're saying really undermines not only the post, but you in general. I'm going to be honest, I expect better, and if you didn't have a history of better posts, I'd have laughed you off this forum.

@Sunflash Well, aren't you a bit hard? :(

@Amerr But I agree this sound more like a rant than a reaction. No that there is anything wrong with posting a rant, did the same before with Manuel Neuer not too long ago and I was suprised not to get any stick for it. :P Anyway, don't let other people get to you, we all know Pep is a respected manager so it won't come as a suprise if a lot of people disagree with you but you shouldn't let it stop you from still hanging around and making great thread. We all like you buddy, even if we don't all agree with you and sometime some of us don't react well to some of your post, your a welcome presence on the forum. ;)

Oh God.. I just spent the last 30 minutes typing and responding to everyone, explaining my thinking. And then guess what I did?

I wanted to close a different window but I closed this one. Fucking had about a 1000 words at least written.

Fuck me.. From now on, I'm using Word for my replies. Anyway, give me a few minutes. Let me start over again.

@Amer: That awkward moment that so called best team still manages to not beat Barcelona in 4 of the last 6 league matches....I think Real may have had the upper hand in Copa? I'm sure you'll let me know....

Edit: You would understand more if you know that Man City has lost to Barcelona in 5 of their last 6 attempts....with the lone win coming yesterday....

Pep isn't the best coach, but he is a great coach. Give him a world class squad and he will win you titles, that's the point of the whole sport.

What I like about Pep's tactics is that how he made Barca's midfield and defence running around like headless chickens. Whenever City's defence had possession, Aguero would run to attack dragging at least 2 Barca's center halves to their own position. With that city's defence have less oppositions and more easy choices to pass. They didnt have much possession like the last game, but they used the few they had better than Barcelona. The whole City squad was amazing. Its like they are finally playing to what they are worth. Silva, Gundogan, KDB, Fernandinho, Sterling and Aguero owned Barca's midfield and defence. Busquets was easily stopped, he had City's entire team watching his every step. When Busquets gets marked, you basically got 50% of the job done. With iniesta out as well, Man city to full advantage of that and tried to pressure Barca's midfield as much as they can, intercepting every ball and quickly countering them, if only they can finish their chances it would be a whole worse game for Barca.

Without iniesta, the man who's game composure is second to none, MSN can't be fed, and they are just basically doing nothing. Gomes was horrible, why n earth did he sub their best midfielder Rakitic and not Gomes first?! Luchos subs always questions me.

Basically saying, City got their sh*t together and faced Barca like the team they truly are.

I agree with amer at one point tho, City faced Barca 6 times, they should atleast win 2 games and draw a couple based on how much they spent on the team. For example, Barca until this date haven't won at the Anoeta from 2011, 2011!. thats like 5 or 6 games unbeaten vs Barca in their own stadium for Real Sociedad. So i am pretty sure City can at least bang a win or draw in their last 5 fixtures. The thing is, not only did they lose, they were humiliated, Barca outplayed City in all their games, though most ended 1-0 and 2-1, Joe hart was saving their asses from Barca since day 1. So I think we shouldn't over exaggerate City's win, they still have a long way to go, plus lets not forget, Barca was off form and their main player Busquets lost his touch from a couple of weeks ago, we still need to see what will happen later, but congrats to City for their win, if they keep this up, semi-finals or finals are secured.

I'm not saying he's a bad manager, he's not a complete moron. What I am however saying is that he is very very overrated. The only success he's ever really had has been with Barcelona, because the fact that he's won the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich is much like PSG winning the French League. It's a given. It would happen whether Pep was there or not. It would happen whoever was there, hell, even "tiki_taka" would've won the Bundesliga with the team Bayern Munich had in that league.

Guardiola was brought in to continue the success of Heynckes, who had just won the famous treble. Germany's all conquering heroes. Guardiola tinkered with it, tried to make it even better. And what happened? First year. 5-0 v Real. Second year? Just as bad v Barcelona. Third? Loss v Atletico Madrid. This is the same team that Heynckes had humiliated Barcelona with 7-0 of an aggregate score. Again, please explain to me what has Guardiola done, in his immaculate managerial prowess in Germany? People look at the trophies and think he's been success. But no, Guardiola has failed in Germany and failed big.

Pep was successul with Barcelona, but who wouldn't be with the talent in their team? The once in a clubs existence where a class graduates with so much talent that it takes on the World. Beats it. Multiple times. You could literally teach that Barcelona team to play long ball, and they would be successful with it. You could have them play attractive - Arsenal - type total football, and they would have been successful with it. Guardiola was just at the right place, at the right time. The success of that Barcelona side did not hinge on Pep. No, it was the players. They would've won everything in their way without any instructions. Any manager in Pep's place during that time would have been a success.

For example, what Mourinho did with Porto when he won the champions league is DEFY THE ODDS. Guardiola has never done that. He's only played the odds. The odds which were, always, heavily stacked in his favor.

That is why I say he's overhyped. Again, he's not a moron, I don't think he's a terrible manager. But he has not done anything to convince me he's worthy of all the praise. I've never seen him do anything special from the dugout, never did he make some change when everything is going bad. Never have seen him influence a game with a sub or two that made me think, wow. This guy is actually fucking trying to do something from there. No, there has never been a plan B with Pep. It's plan A, from start to finish. Either it works, or doesn't.

But none of this was actually my point. What I was talking about here is the fact that Pep's behavior is simply not right. I remember, Bayern Munich was supposed to play Barcelona, and before the game - Pep in his presser said, "Barcelona is the best team. We will try to hurt them." Essentially conceding, telling his players, the fans of his the club, and everybody connected to the club. You are inferior. The problem is not that he does this once or twice, but he does this every single opportunity he gets. He is constantly choosing Barcelona over the team where he is currently managing. I understand loyalty. I respect it, I admire it. I understand the kind of loyalty and identity that can form between a fan and a club, and I'm sure that has developed between Pep and Barcelona - however.. You cannot forget loyalty towards the club where you currently SERVE. Especially considering that you are employed by clubs with such rich history, standing, and respect. When you speak of that club, the players, the fans, everybody is expecting one thing, and one thing alone from you. You are in the best club in the World. There is nobody better, there is nobody we can't beat. Nothing can beat us except our own mistakes. That is a mind-state that is expected from every manager that is currently working for a big club. Carlo Ancelotti, when he speaks of Real Madrid, he speaks with positivity, tells how it was an excellent experience, how it was a once in a life time opportunity. But he'll never.. ever, compare Real Madrid with Bayern Munich. Nothing good comes out of that. Same thing with Mourinho, with every other professional manager out there. There is speaking positively towards one of the clubs you like, and then there is speaking for the club you work for. You do not confuse the two. Pep has last worked for Barcelona four years ago, if not longer. But to this day, and all the time in between, the way he speaks of Barcelona is the way one would expect its manager to speak. Never mind the fact that during this time, he has been employed by another club that has a history even richer than that of Barcelona. So I am asking, why does he keep kissing Barcelona's phantom behind so much, for so long? It is unheard of. And why doesn't media pick it up? I do not know. The way he talks, it's almost as if he's trying to convince people to become fans of Barcelona. Advertising for them, even when it's faulty advertising as it was when he spoke after the City - Barca game.

He speaks of Barcelona as this mythic entity that cannot be beaten, not even by his own team. Not by Bayern, not by City. City and Bayern fans, did you guy have problems with this?

If he was the manager of my club but spoke that way of some other club - not a direct rival, I would offended. Insulted. I hope I have explained myself in a way, that.. hopefully a 13 year old Madrista would be proud of. ;)

@ashwin: Why go back 6 games? Why not go 20? Why not go 100? Hell, let's go back and count all the matches between these two clubs.

There is an argument to be made that when talking about the best football clubs, in any given year, to only look at the results from that given year. Perhaps go back another half a year but that is it. Managerial changes, incoming/outgoing players. These things change a team, sometimes not so much, sometimes a little something completes the team so much that it now competes on a completely different level.

I like to think Casemiro has done that for Real Madrid, as has Zidane. So let's stay in the realm of what 'this' team has done. This specific core group of players. Because talking about that team, I recall them having one less player than Barcelona while they were on one of their best ever runs. We all remembered what happened when this team met with the current.. 'supposedly best' Barca. You cannot be considered the best team in the World when you're beaten, in your own stadium, by a team with a player less than you.

Comethe the hour. Cometh the Casemiro.

He's coming back. Not long now.

You can go back as many games as you want. You are only ever as good as your last game.

I'm not saying he's a bad manager, he's not a complete moron. What I am however saying is that he is very very overrated. The only success he's ever really had has been with Barcelona, because the fact that he's won the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich is much like PSG winning the French League. It's a given. It would happen whether Pep was there or not. It would happen whoever was there, hell, even "tiki_taka" would've won the Bundesliga with the team Bayern Munich had in that league.

I don't disagree. Nevertheless, I think that if nothing else, you're way overrating Bayern/Heynckes. Yes, I know, he won a treble. He didn't win the Bundesliga with Bayern the year before. No team has ever won back-to-back trebles, and I don't know why you expected Bayern to be any different.

Guardiola was brought in to continue the success of Heynckes, who had just won the famous treble. Germany's all conquering heroes. Guardiola tinkered with it, tried to make it even better. And what happened? First year. 5-0 v Real. Second year? Just as bad v Barcelona. Third? Loss v Atletico Madrid. This is the same team that Heynckes had humiliated Barcelona with 7-0 of an aggregate score. Again, please explain to me what has Guardiola done, in his immaculate managerial prowess in Germany? People look at the trophies and think he's been success. But no, Guardiola has failed in Germany and failed big.

Like you, I would not label Guardiola's time in Germany as a success. His game-time decisions that inspired those CL semi-final losses have been hot topics for anyone (like myself) who don't think Guardiola is as good as he's been made out to be. That doesn't mean he's a shite manager.

Pep was successul with Barcelona, but who wouldn't be with the talent in their team? The once in a clubs existence where a class graduates with so much talent that it takes on the World. Beats it. Multiple times. You could literally teach that Barcelona team to play long ball, and they would be successful with it. You could have them play attractive - Arsenal - type total football, and they would have been successful with it. Guardiola was just at the right place, at the right time. The success of that Barcelona side did not hinge on Pep. No, it was the players. They would've won everything in their way without any instructions. Any manager in Pep's place during that time would have been a success.

This logic is terrible. If it was true, I wouldn't be seeing the shitty results United brings in week after week with a squad of players so talented that I guarantee anywhere else they would be kicking butt. Every player we let go seems to do fantastic for their new club (e.g. Di Maria, Chicharito, not Falcao lol). Besides, let's not make the mistake of assuming that Pep inherited the team he won all those trophies with. The very first thing I remember him doing was kicking out everyone's favorite player and Balon d'Or winning Ronaldinho. Everyone thought he was insane and it was only Pep's success that shut them up. Like it or not, Pep created a side in Barca that was so successful it changed the way the game was played. You only see that once or twice a generation, and give credit where credit was due. Pep could finish at the bottom of the league every season and you wouldn't be able to take that away from his legacy.

For example, what Mourinho did with Porto when he won the champions league is DEFY THE ODDS. Guardiola has never done that. He's only played the odds. The odds which were, always, heavily stacked in his favor.

Ronaldinho is the clear rebuttal to this, but Pep also took a style of play (tiki-taka) further than anyone before him and changed the odds as a result. If the team he got was so awesome (which it kind of was) the odds would have said that he should keep doing exactly what had been done before. He didn't, and created one of the best teams of all-time.

That is why I say he's overhyped. Again, he's not a moron, I don't think he's a terrible manager. But he has not done anything to convince me he's worthy of all the praise. I've never seen him do anything special from the dugout, never did he make some change when everything is going bad. Never have seen him influence a game with a sub or two that made me think, wow. This guy is actually *** trying to do something from there. No, there has never been a plan B with Pep. It's plan A, from start to finish. Either it works, or doesn't.

Why's that a bad thing if it works? His plan A is so retardedly good he's only needed his plan B in CL semi-finals (where he got his ass kicked, lul). I don't disagree he needs to be more flexible, but saying that he doesn't deserve praise for creating the best system of the last two decades is just wrong. He does deserve the flack he gets when it doesn't work (again, CL semis), but you're pretending that that media pressure doesn't exist, and if you think that's true I would argue that you haven't been paying attention.

But none of this was actually my point. What I was talking about here is the fact that Pep's behavior is simply not right. I remember, Bayern Munich was supposed to play Barcelona, and before the game - Pep in his presser said, "Barcelona is the best team. We will try to hurt them." Essentially conceding, telling his players, the fans of his the club, and everybody connected to the club. You are inferior. The problem is not that he does this once or twice, but he does this every single opportunity he gets. He is constantly choosing Barcelona over the team where he is currently managing. I understand loyalty. I respect it, I admire it. I understand the kind of loyalty and identity that can form between a fan and a club, and I'm sure that has developed between Pep and Barcelona.

Ok.

You cannot forget loyalty towards the club where you currently SERVE. Especially considering that you are employed by clubs with such rich history, standing, and respect. When you speak of that club, the players, the fans, everybody is expecting one thing, and one thing alone from you. You are in the best club in the World. There is nobody better, there is nobody we can't beat.

I would disagree with this statement. Barcelona has been weaker over the last season, but generally since Pep left they have been the undisputed best team in Europe. Chelsea nicked a tie from them that was amazing to watch, but if we go by any stat except goals it would've been hard to justify it. And I know you're going to say, if you lost, you deserve to lose, which is true, but the statement: because you lose they're better than you is just simply not true. Freaking Newcastle, shitty crappy Newcastle, could potentially beat Real Madrid. It doesn't mean they were the better overall team, it just means that they scored more goals. This is a contentious point, perhaps better explained by saying "just because x team was better on the day doesn't mean that they're better than y team." It was not just Pep that thought Barca was better. Believing Barca is a better team doesn't mean that he doesn't think they can win. I don't think it's in his best interest to say it, but I also wouldn't crucify him for a statement that at the time everyone thought was correct.

That is a mind-state that is expected from every manager that is currently working for a big club. Carlo Ancelotti, when he speaks of Real Madrid, he speaks with positivity, tells how it was an excellent experience, how it was a once in a life time opportunity. But he'll never.. ever, compare Real Madrid with Bayern Munich. Nothing good comes out of that. Same thing with Mourinho, with every other professional manager out there. There is speaking positively towards one of the clubs you like, and then there is speaking for the club you work for. You do not confuse the two.

Agree completely. I don't see how this translates to Pep being overhyped or a bad tactician. He knows how the players feel. He knows how he feels. That's all that matters. How the fans feel, in terms of winning a game, is pretty irrelevant imo. And what you're talking about is the fans and maybe board. But it doesn't translate to what happens on the field. Sometimes making yourself the underdog is itself a tactical decision.

So I am asking, why does he keep kissing Barcelona's phantom behind so much, for so long? It is unheard of. And why doesn't media pick it up? I do not know. The way he talks, it's almost as if he's trying to convince people to become fans of Barcelona. Advertising for them, even when it's faulty advertising as it was when he spoke after the City - Barca game.

I think you're assuming that Pep hasn't earned respect. I think that that is a very incorrect assumption. Pep is a fan of Barcelona. That's undeniable. Do you really think that he doesn't want to beat them? I think that he wants to beat them more than any other team on the planet. That's what is asked of him by his current club. I don't see the conflict that you're making out to exist.

He speaks of Barcelona as this mythic entity that cannot be beaten, not even by his own team. Not by Bayern, not by City. City and Bayern fans, did you guy have problems with this?

He has never, as a manager of another team, said Barcelona could not be beaten. If he had, he never would have said it before the game, which appears to be your major concern. I would extend this question Amer asks, City and Bayern fans, do you have a problem with this? Making a statement about the generally strongest team in the world over the last decade and acknowledging that the game is going to be difficult? DO you really have a problem with him saying that?

Here's where we differ Amer, I'm big on results and not big on talk. Pep has ZERO right to say, at Bayern, that Bayern is better than Barca. The second he beats them, he can say whatever he wants. But he had to win first, and he couldn't.

Even his victory the other day has its limits. It doesn't matter. Barca will advance like City, and maybe even advance ahead of them, we don't know yet. It's a moral victory, but at the end of the day he just won the second game after getting thumped. Blow for blow, who's better? Who can tell?

If he was the manager of my club but spoke that way of some other club - not a direct rival, I would offended. Insulted. I hope I have explained myself in a way, that.. hopefully a 13 year old Madrista would be proud of. ;)

This post was much more articulate than your first, and I can respectfully disagree with you now, instead of being offended at seeing whatever garbage first post that was initially. but for the record I said 10-year old :P

I can't even say we are the best team in Spain. I don't care if we are still on top of the table, un till now, we haven't seen a convincing performance from Real. How on earth are we undefeated is beyond me i tell you, conceding 3 against Legia even though we were 2 goals up isn't a walk in a park. Ronaldo is completely horrendous, his performance after the Euro has gone down, his best performace was against Dortmund, other than that, he is completely useless. Vazquez should play more and Ronaldo should be dropped. It's not fair when players like James and Isco are working every day to get minutes while Ronaldo is walking around, it pains me to see him like this.

Kovacic has been phenomenal so far this season, Bale has also improved. Zidane needs to think of his tactics, like, i think that he doesnt have any tactics, the whole season we were crossing and hoping someone scores, we need to work on our counter attacking and stop underestimating our opponents. Legia attacked better and played like Barcelona. they simply ran over our defense. Even with Casemiro, Modric, Marcelo and Ramos, that is no excuse to draw or win in such pathetic way. I wont be surprised if City humliate us with these kind of performances, Zidane needs to get his tactics straight and Ronaldo needs to stop slacking off FFS!

http://lasthl.com/legia-vs-real-madrid-highlights-full-match/

@Amerr30.

I've never seen him do anything special from the dugout, never did he make some change when everything is going bad. Never have seen him influence a game with a sub or two

Just consider the game against Wolfsburg! Trailing 1-0 at half time...introduced lewandowski after the break....what happened?!?! 5 goals in under 10 mins to win the game 5-1!!!! I think thats a pretty special substitution or.....??!!

sometimes saying less is better than saying more

even "tiki_taka" would've won the Bundesliga with the team Bayern Munich had in that league.

Whats your fucking problem dude ? Are you looking for me ?

Hello gentlemen, let's keep the arguments on-topic and football-related please. :)

My lord, Im at work and this thread looked interesting. I cant read them now, but I read the OP.

My 2 cents for now is, Pep is a great manager, he's the one who bring identity to English football which is very much in need now. Was about to post a thread about that.

But will continue later on this topic.

One thing though, the logic that a team packed with world-class players will defeat everybody without a manager or with a mediocre manager is not at all true. If that were true, there would not be any need of a manager. A coach or manager is the one who brings the motivation to the players, who gets their confidence back after a loss, who is in short responsible for all their highs and lows. Saying that anybody could win the Bundesliga with Bayern imo is not at all true. Every team needs a figure to look up to, get their instructions, etc. A team without a manager to unite everyone and packed with world-class players would simply self destruct with clashes of ego.

On the topic though, best team or not, beating Barcelona is a big achievment for any team other than Real/Atletico (with the only possible exception being Bayern Munich). I'll not argue with you on the kissing ass thing, because I also think he praises Barca way too much. But otherwise he is in the top 5 managers in the world, whether you like it or not. Just because Real has not lost this season doesn't mean you can forever go on picking on that under-strength Barcelona side that lost to Alaves.

Pep is a great manager even today, and Barcelona is a great club even today.

From someone praising Carlo Ancelotti sacking for Rafa Benitez, what can you expect ? Big rant because Pep didnt say Madrid was the best club in the Galaxy, very smart.

Just read excellent reply of @SunFlash: very well said mate.

@Amer:

Manchester City has never played Barcelona before these 6 games. If you watch UCL or have been following it for sometime you would know. The 5 wins Barcelona had, they utterly dominated City in 4 of them.
I understand your point about the core group of players, but to be honest, the City team that beat Barcelona is very identical to the one that lost 2 years ago...only notable difference is DeBryune & Gundagon combination. So there was not a drastic difference in the core. Considering that, what Guardiola did is pretty impressive.

Saying your team is only as good as its last game-especially in the league phase of UCL-is the most stupidest argument someone has made. Real drew with Legia Warszawa in UCL. Does that mean Real is only as good as a midtable Polish team?