One of these 2 is a handball and 2nd one isn't can you guess which one?

Wow, that question is weirdly ask tbh. Are we supposed to find the handball or the one who isn't one?

Also, I need to point out that both of those picture are handball if you go by the rulebook. Even if I agree its completely stupid and that they should change the rule because right now, its completely retarded.

Yeah, try to guess which was actually a HANDBALL.

@quikzyyy Oh man, my brain is slow tonight. So yeah, I actually understand what this is about. The first one was actually given as a handball despite the fact it is really stupid it is and the second one wasn't despite the fact its seem way more obvious.

Yeah, the rules are really stupid like I said, I hope they do something about it asap. And the fact the ref doesn't seem to agree on how to apply them doesn't help. I've actually seen a video about it recently that was explaining that its reached a point where every handball should be penalized at this point and that it would make more sense than what the rule currently were.

Yes they should either give every handball or not give them at all.

Or I think this is the best option:
Allow each team one time they can use their hand in the box to stop the ball and then give every other handball as a penalty or foul.

Allow each team one time they can use their hand in the box to stop the ball and then give every other handball as a penalty or foul.

Can't wait for David Luiz turning into Manuel Neuer in 94th minute for the absolute save of the season..

Just from the pictures, I voted option 2 as the handball. Of course, I am throwing out the bullcrap of the ones where the arm is completely against the body or is in its most natural balancing position, but we all know the current rules.

Truth be told, any action where an attacking player touch the ball, even accidentally and which results in a goal or a goalscoring chance, that player will be penalised for handball, which mean image one is a handball, no matter how stupid it is.

Image 2 is propably not for 2 reason, first off, the ball does not travel some distance and also, the player hand (who does contact with the ball) does not obviously goes above his shoulder. I say this only based on the rule (looking at them right now).

Tbh, both Manchester United and Liverpool had similar incident against Chelsea and twice, Chelsea weren't penalised for their handball, propably for similar reason as stated above.

I mean, the ref are not being unfair on purpose, they are trying to be fair but basically, they're enforcing the rule they been taught (based on their own vision of the incident, which if different from one ref to another) and if you do know these rule, most of their decision are correct. Though it doesn't mean the rule are perfect and alway's fair either.

Image 2 is propably not for 2 reason, first off, the ball does not travel some distance and also, the player hand (who does contact with the ball) does not obviously goes above his shoulder. I say this only based on the rule (looking at them right now).

While I know you're reading the rules, this is one of the worst change of the rules I have ever seen. By this meaning, any defender who is close to attacker can make a Neuer style save and not be punished because of the short distance, which sounds absolutely terrible. This is same bullshit as Werner offside against Liverpool.

Image 1 is not a handball, image 2 is a handball

Yeah, I saw that they went against the rule, if the ball touches a part of the body before touching the hand while the hand isn't moving, that's not a pk. I voted option 1 because I saw the ref giving a pk wrongly in that one...

By this meaning, any defender who is close to attacker can make a Neuer style save and not be punished because of the short distance, which sounds absolutely terrible.

That one rule is actually pretty complicated, obviously, I hope the distance and speed required for it not to count as a handball is one where the player doesn't stand a change to move him arm out of the way. Tbh, I checked the incident against Burnley and honestly, it feel to me like this is a case of the player not having the time to move his hand out of the way more than him trying to pull a Neuer. He also didn't raise his arm above his shoulder which is part of the thing they check so it help as well. Finally, the ref propably considered the player arms were in a natural position.

I mean, don't get me wrong, i understand where your coming from and player musn't stop balls with their hand on purpose and get away with it.

The inverse is also true, attacking player shouldn't be allowed to simply tap the ball on the defender hands and get a penality for free out of it. Which is technically what Pepe does in that particular incident (though I don't think that was intentional on his part either).

I want Arsenal to lose every game for Arteta to get sacked so when I say that's a penalty you know I'm not being biased.
I have played in defence a lot and I can figure out immediately that his arm being that high is not a natural position at all. The only explanation for the arm being that high is so the defender can illegally stop pepe from progressing. For this reason proximity doesn't matter and its a definite penalty.

The inverse is also true, attacking player shouldn't be allowed to simply tap the ball on the defender hands and get a penality for free out of it. Which is technically what Pepe does in that particular incident (though I don't think that was intentional on his part either).

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to chip him and be 1on1 with the goalkeeper.

Finally, the ref propably considered the player arms were in a natural position.

If that was the case the ref and referee in VAR room should have been sacked immediately, if this is natural position with his arm as far from body as possible, every defender can just raise their arms like this and they can just scrap the whole handball rule.

 if this is natural position with his arm as far from body as possible, every defender can just raise their arms like this and they can just scrap the whole handball rule.

if this is natural position with his arm as far from body as possible, every defender can just raise their arms like this and they can just scrap the whole handball rule.

@quikzyyy Yeah, you are actually right about that part, shouldn't have added that yesterday (sorry, I got lost in my thought and end up writing that for some reason :U). Its obviously make his body bigger no matter how you look at it. So basically, its obviously a question of distance. Which considering the situaton , made it impossible for him to move his arm away.

Even though he couldn't have complained if he would have been given an handball, for his arms position was pretty bad.

One thing I realized, is that the arm above the shoulder seem to count a lot for the referee, so in that sense, thing could have been completely different if that was the case.

Anyway, how would you like the rule to be changed quikzyyy for thing to be better? Honestly curious to know.

Did you see the foden stonewall penalty get denied by the ref and VAR? They gave Laporte's touch on the shoulder as a penalty before that but denied foden🤦🏽‍♂️

Even pep mentions the Fulham and arsenal decisions. go to 1:48:

@Footy_watch Not much I can say if Pep Guardiola say that, he obviously know a lot more than me about football. I completely agree with him not understanding why Foden wasn't given a pen. I mean, because he didn't go to the ground? Ridiculous, referee might as well just go applaud player that dive or fall to the ground when they could stand.

Yeah, that was absolute crap decision, I don't think these are mistakes at all, match fixing was here all the time, no matter the year or league, it's even easier with VAR to fix matches. Mic those referees like they do in NFL, why don't they do it?

@Emo Well, considering the Fulham one that's not a handball for me ever, like where he is supposed to put that hand? It's as close to the body as it can, basically only thing he can do is chop his hand off. Why this is a handball when it leads to goal, but when it should lead to penalty it's not a handball?

The 2nd one for me is penalty 10/10 times, as a defender you are taught to defend with your arms behind your back, this is not any natural position, you are not defending with having your arm trying to make Michael Jordan. If the proximity rule applies, every defender should just stand in front of attacking player put their arms in the air like the picture above, and simply save the ball and stop the attack as it's not called as a handball due to proximity. The time reaction argument is one of the biggest bullshit that's like I will do sliding tackle take your striker down while he is without ball and I will never concede a penalty because he just passed the ball and I didn't have time to change my mind.

These rules are just making people quit watching football. Even Burnley players were surprised how the hell that wasn't a penalty.

The time reaction argument is one of the biggest bullshit that's like I will do sliding tackle take your striker down while he is without ball and I will never concede a penalty because he just passed the ball and I didn't have time to change my mind.

Er... I would like to say thats a bit different but i get your point. Defender really shouldn't hang out their arm like that in their own box, especially when your back is toward your goal and you ain't running to get back in position.

Personally, my biggest problem isn't really with the rule (even though i agree they are flawed to a level) but how the football federations across europe don't popularize and clarify them for the common fans. Like, maybe it just me but I legit feel like the majority of fans don't know about the current handball rule anymore.

I also agree the lack of transpency by the ref is worrysome. We should be able to have access to what the ref, his assisstant and the var team are saying. Also, I don't understand why ref have to remain that mysterious individual who seem to exist only on the pitch. Why doesn't they give interview where they explain their decision and teach some of the rule people don't get. Transparency is the best way to fight againt matchfixing imho.

I think it's safe to say that we all have played or are playing footy so the question from me is, putting your hands and arms behind your back a natural position? Are you expected to keep them there even if you are falling, so as to not break your fall?

Yes, defenders are told to put the arms back so the ball can't hit the arm or hand, but why does it have to be so pitifully outlined for a Ref to make the right choices, especially with VAR?

I agree match-fixing is still a big deal, but let's leave that out for now. As a forward, one of the moves I will do is to flick the ball up and into the arm or hand, to try and force the ref into a choice. The player, just doing their defensive duty would have no option to avoid it unless they pulled the arms back, but what does that do for me now as the forward.... I have an easy time getting around, can push the defender off balance easier, all because they don't have their normal counterbalance abilities with arms in more natural positions. Fair????

I wish we were able to all agree on one aspect, update the rule to fit and go, but we can't because we all don't agree on somethings.

The Fulham one is not a handball to me... Easy... The Aston Villa? one is a handball because the arms are out, but I am not a fan of the lack of common sense for natural body positioning. Again, VAR is there to really analyze and then help the Ref.