So anyone wanna help me understand why Liverpool who were supposed to be favorite for competing for the league are doing so poorly?

I do understand fitness is an huge issue but they still had Salah, Diaz, Van Djik, and Allison, some of their best player when they had their poor run earlier in the season. Do you guys think they'll do better after the international break?

I think the great chemistry has faded that we saw 3 years ago. Liverpool seems like a club in which every player wants to make a good face like everything is alright but actually the inner climate might be different. I'm quite sure players like Mane, Wijnaldum, Minamino left because they really wanted to leave the club. There was definitely something wrong with playing time, their roles, salaries etc. This all ruins the chemistry which they had before the egos started to clash. Salah started with his huge wage demands and now he earns twice as much as the other players there. How should they feel (or Mane feel that he's considered much less important than Salah?)

When Minamino was in Liverpool he always made a good face but quoting Minamino after leaving: "Many of the games I played weren't of interest to anyone. Even if I left the results, there wasn't much response. I was thinking that I would leave something behind when I went to the match mentally. I felt motivated by regret and anger every day. I've never had this much free time as a player. It was difficult to maintain the condition and connect with my feelings."

Klopp brings in good new players but the old players who were used to having a big role in the club need to make space and that is causing inside problems, I feel. Now we see that Keita is showing dissatisfaction, also Firmino has the reason to be worried about playing time and there's a big competition between centerbacks aswell. It doesn't always work out well.

All in all I respect the club, those have just been my own thoughts about the situation..

@estcrow Not a bad point at all, I think its fair to say that other than injury, there might be a depth problem at Liverpool and them losing the like Wijnaldum and Minamino doesn't help in the long term. There no doubt in my mind thats it has to be much harder to be a subs or rotation player at Liverpool than at most of the other big six teams.

was Minamino better than Salah or Mane that he wanted to start over one of them? I get that players wants to play, but no manager is going to bench one of those 2 for Minamino while challenging for UCL/PL

I really want to say Mané

He was such a big part of their offense.

Like ”estcrow” said. It could be chemistry issues. They have many new (offensive) players that maybe needs time to adapt to a new system, new philosophy, new league etc.

This Liverpool is built on a solid foundation and I have a strong feeling that they will turn it around, sooner or later. They just need to keep working and grinding, and belive in themselves

@quikzyyy I think its just an example estcrow used to point out the lack of chemistry and affection from the rotation player. I mean, we alway complain about Liverpool lack of depth but I think we don't question enough the fact it might have been caused by Liverpool own focus on playing its in-form player and not giving enough chance to rotation player unless they didn't had a choice.

I really want to say Mané

He was such a big part of their offense.

I know people will argue Salah best season will alway be above Mane best season at Liverpool but after all I seen from Liverpool, can't help thinking Mane brought more to the team. My problem with Salah is that his greatest quality is his decisiveness and when he's having a hard time on that thing, he bring a lot less to the team. Mane could help build the play more and was much more effective without the ball, for me at least.

Honestly, faced with the problem of having to keep only one, I think I would have prefered Mane over Salah.

Wow, despite the wins in the CL and against City, its still not going well for Liverpool, another lose today vs Leeds after the defeat vs Nottingham... Two defeat against 2 teams that were in the relegation zone (Forest still are but Leeds are out of it thanks to today win).

The first goal against Leeds is a great example of everything going wrong with Liverpool right now in their defense. If you haven't seen it yet, i recommend you do, its really pretty funny and maybe a bit sad...

Edit: Fun fact, despite what it look like, in term of expected goals, Liverpool offense is underperforming and their defense is actually overperforming.

VVD needs to be dropped, he looked so meh, not giving a damn, I know he wants to play on World Cup, but this is kinda pathetic.

We know he is still a world class defender as he shown against City, but that 2nd goal he really don't give a damn about league this season.

I saw the highlights only, VVD's on a tilt. There needs to be competition over his place because otherwise he might continue feeling complacent about his guaranteed starting position, and when that happens, it can backfire against Klopp.

@quikzyyy @iHEARTfootball I kinda agree, people were blaming TAA a lot earlier in the season but VVD hasn't been nowhere close his best level either and this has costed Liverpool a bunch of point imho.

I don't even think it has so much to do with the World Cup though, he just doesn't seem to have his head in the game.

Maybe he never actually came back from his injury but because of Konaté stellar performance last season, it didn't show as much. Maybe his body having a hard time keeping up, I know 31 isn't that old for a CB but I believe VVD was alway a very physical defender so maybe this tired him sooner than it should have or have more effect on his game that we would expect. I don't know but for sure, he is part of the problem.

I cringed watching Liverpool… they are being more like Manchester United than Manchester united🤦‍♂️

@Pelle Harsh but sadly true, though in Manchester United defense, things are really starting to look up for them. Liverpool though, they having one heck of a bad season and I don't see what they can really do to fix thing completely... I mean they can still compete for CL and cups but the league is over I feel like.

You all watch more European matches than I do, so feel free to comment if you feel I get this wrong, but, from the matches, I have seen, while the level is there, the pace and energy are not. It feels like players are being very cautious, and not pushing too much.

What starts in like 20 days...... Does anyone know? I feel it's something pretty big, oh yes, the freaking World Cup!!! The top players involved are not looking to get injured or risk their place in the tournament, so I feel like many are not in that top gear we tend to see.

Not trying to excuse Liverpool or any team that we think is underperforming, but I just feel the cup is a major factor. Being selfish, if it means that the best ball will be at the cup, I am all for it. I throw the league out for this tournament every time. haha

As for Liverpool, the team, losing some key players is always going to affect balance and chemistry.

@Darth Ah well, you propably right, nobody want to jump right into a two-footed tackle 2 week before the world cup, no doubt the players also try to preserve themselve a bit more. We seen Varane reaction after his injury against Chelsea, everyone is on edge and worrying about injury more than ever.

Honestly, thats why I disagree with Quatar world cup and i think 2 year world cup wouldn't be so crazy. Making this so rare really make players obssessed with it because most player can only get 2 or 3 chance to play in one at max.

Tell me Umtiti would have ruined his career if he had known he could have played in a 2020 WC?

Being selfish, if it means that the best ball will be at the cup, I am all for it. I throw the league out for this tournament every time. haha

Yeah, well players are still under contract. Earning 220k/week to jog and not give a damn 1/3 of a season because World Cup is approaching is not very professional imo.

Tell me Umtiti would have ruined his career if he had known he could have played in a 2020 WC?

I think anyone would ruin his career for world cup, also no one probably though the injury will be this crucial..

I think anyone would ruin his career for world cup, also no one probably though the injury will be this crucial..

One of the reason pretty much every athletes are ready for that is because of its rarity, the fact they don't know what other chances they might have to win it later on their career. If it was less rare, player might think twice before risking their health to participate in it. I mean, I'm not saying I don't want WC to be the most exciting international tournament ever but honestly, I'd wish it wasn't so precious player sacrifice their long term health for it.

Yeah, well players are still under contract. Earning 220k/week to jog and not give a damn 1/3 of a season because World Cup is approaching is not very professional imo.

I dunno, I mean, you did say anyone would be ready to ruin their career for world cup, so their reputation or work ethic might not be that important either compared to the chance of playing a WC.

I dunno, I mean, you did say anyone would be ready to ruin their career for world cup, so their reputation or work ethic might not be that important either compared to the chance of playing a WC.

Question would be, why should a manager pick a player who is not giving a damn for 1/3 a season. I get that VVD for example doesn't want to get injured and he would still walk into most of the teams starting XI, but this jogging doesn't feel like preparation for World Cup. He is nailed started and maybe that will hurt Netherland performances at WC, but I'm not really complaining.

@quikzyyy Well, at this point, we'd have to ask someone who actually watch him for Netherland national team.

Its true VVD feel like he been weaker than usual even before we got close to the WC, still remember the penalty he gave against Fulham early in the season. Wonder if I wasn't right the first time when I said his physical style and Liverpool pressing may have started catching up to him. Maybe its a mix, he's tired and also trying to keep some reserve for the world cup. Guess we'll see how he perform in Quatar.

Yeah, for example we may feel like they are saving their best for world cup but with amount of matches for example him or whole Liverpool team has played past 2-3 seasons, no matter the peds, surely the body will get tired sooner or later

@quikzyyy Honestly, I feel this is something we forget but if Bielsa waste his team after only 2 to 3 seasons, how the heck would Klopp manage to keep their energy up after so long? Feel like they are honestly no way their body isn't still hurting from last season as well, considering they basically played all the game they possibly could.