that's right you're reading well. for how much i hate the debate Ronaldo vs Messi, i couldn't resist but post this statement made by Fernando Llorente, Juventus FC forward.

"As football players, i think they both come from another planet, tho' i'd like to see them against Italian defences. They probably wouldn't be able to score this much; here defences close back the spaces really well, and there's a lot of men defending the box, it is indeed more difficult to score (in Serie A)".

that is the exact translation of the statement made by the spanish player at Radio Cope.

although i completely agree, despite the fact every time i brought up this same opinion i was treated like a fool, i'm temped to say that those might be his last famous words (implying that tonight Juve is gonna take a slap in the face by Atleti).

source: http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/juventus/2014/articoli/1053266/juve-llorente-messi-e-cr7-in-italia-segnerebbero-molto-meno-.shtml

That's interesting. I think I can agree with him because mostly Italian clubs (and nation) play defensive play.

Italian football is famous for playing defensive and aggresive. Messi would get injured very fast in Italy because he isnt that strong.

Messi did well against Italian defenses and so Ronaldo, thankfully CL exists.

I would agree if we were in phenomeno era...

It's kinda true what he's saying, but actually ^"I would agree if we were in phenomeno era..." well said!

I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember that Zlatan said in his book little bit similar - something like: "I was proud to be the top scorer in Serie A, because it's the toughest league to win it."

@Tiki, i can't recall the exact number but i think Messi scored a total of 9 goals vs Italian teams. 3 for sure i remember were penalties. considering the amount of matches he played vs Italian teams doesn't make it a really amazing performance. i don't really know about Ronaldo then.

does anyone know where is it possible to get some stats about this?

Well Shpalman, Messi didnt played Calcio teams, they played the cream of Calcio, including one of the best Inter sides of History and a very good Milan.
Assuming how much Tevez and Higuian are scoring there, assuming how well Callejon is doing good there, i dont know why they would got more problems in this league, they may score more or less depending on form, but both +28 goals in any league for sure.

28 goals is a reasonable number. point is that now they're doubling that? Ronaldo alredy scored 23 goals in La Liga we're not even half in the season.

Yeah agree, but the team you play with have a little role too, he was able to splash 17goals in 10 games or something like this CL, doesnt mean CL teams are weak, and he is benefiting from a monstruous work of his team. Lets say if he plays with Napoli he would score less, if the whole Madrid squad move to calcio, oppositon will not matter that much...

Ronaldo wouldnt have scored that much without Madrid best midlefield in the world and forwards complicity assisting him regularly + wingers good passing ability. Its more about wich team and position do you play in rather than in wich league, lets say he would score 0.5 goal a game against Italian big 4, against other teams braces and hattricks will come specially if he shoots all the PK/FK of his team.

In England its the same, teams like Spurs always take 3, 4 goals against the likes of Aguero, Suarez and its safe to say that the pair Ronaldo/Messi is much stronger than Aguero/Suarez as an example.

Edit : I dont mean to reduce CR7 goals achievements, definitly one of the sharpest and dangerous forwards ever.

That's absurd. Messi and Ronaldo's record against Italian teams proves that they would hit 35+ guaranteed. They scored a ridiculous amount of goals already against the best of the Italian teams. They would hammer the other 'weaker' Italian teams even more easily.

PS. Do you really take anything Fernando Llorente says seriously? This guy got kicked out of Bilbao for talking smack to his manager, after which he requested a transfer. If Zlatan can hit 30, Messi and Ronaldo can hit 40.

Despite giving no rat ass about what Llorente has to say, I agree with the fact that Messi and Ronaldo would score less, and might get injury more often. Series A as its natural is hard and more tricky in every way. Not to mention the teammates they are going to have there wouldn't be as good.

But, also agree with Dynas, they would still top that league with 35+, just a bit less.

2009–10 Antonio Di Natale 29

2010–11 Antonio Di Natale 28

2011–12 Zlatan Ibrahimović 28

2012–13 Edinson Cavani 29

2013–14 Ciro Immobile 22

I disagree with what he said. This is a stupid topic to talk about. We've heard EPL fangirls say that Messi wouldn't score as much in the EPL too. Nonsense. We'll never know anyhow.
As far as 35+ guarantee, I call bs on that. They would be injured a lot there and marked more. 40? Yeah, when I walk on the moon. I'd say 30-ish would be about right.

Lets take Llorente as an exemple, lets take his best scoring year in Bilbao where he was the main threat, in 2010/11.
And let also take his biggest goalscoring year in all competitions, in 2011/12.

In La Liga in 10/11, he was able to score 18 goals in 38 games, being the main threat and shooting PKs, he scored 4 goals in 8 games in international games, thats close to his usual rake of the season.

In 2009, he scored only 14 goals in 37 games, but in Europa League, an astonishing 8 goals in 11 games, here again he scored more against non Spanish rivals.

In 11/12, the year Messi scored 50 goals, he scored 16 in 32 games, his usual rake again.

In his first season at Juve, where he wasnt the main threat, and not shooting PKs regularly, he scored 16 goals in 34 games in Calcio, while he just scored 2 goals in 10 games in CL.

Comparing his first season in Calcio comparing to the best season he had in la liga gives you :

Best year in Liga : 18 goals / 38 appearences : Rake : 0.47.
First season in Calcio : 16 goals / 34 appearences : Rake : 0.47

Incredibly the same amount.

^ This.

It's not like Llorente has significantly improved since going to Serie A either. He's the same player.

Just wanted to say that I do find it more difficult to score against Serie A teams in FIFA. Almost impossible to hit them on the counter and some of the defenders are walls. Lost to AC Milan and Juve the other day, after beating Real Madrid etc.

Nothing wrong with what he said. Apart from the obvious lower team quality differences, he would know as he played in both leagues.

I like argument with data. +1 tiki, that makes total sense. Of course it's not black and white but if we dont give better data to support our argument, well ...

^ Thanks, Specially when actually he was doing bad, its called communication.
Gareth Bale 3 first months at Spain were complicated, he had to adapt to a new style, he told Spanish press that la Liga is tougher than PL, should we trust him blindly because this claim suited him when he was adapting to the league ?

We shouldnt give that much credit when a player do a communication, its like a Barça player or Madrid or Bayern backing his teammates for BO, it doesnt work like this.

Searie A = the best GKs and defenders for decades .

wow, good to see this topic got some good feedback :D

@Tiki
"Yeah agree, but the team you play with have a little role too, he was able to splash 17goals in 10 games or something like this CL, doesnt mean CL teams are weak"

indeed it also has to do with the team they play in, and it also has to do a lot with the tactical approach of the middle/low table teams in the respective leagues. when they face big clubs, Serie A middle table teams play like Atletico, same tactical approach, more or less. btw i see Ronaldo scored 6 goals in 5 games in this CL, i don't understand where that 17 comes from.

@Dynastian
"They scored a ridiculous amount of goals already against the best of the Italian teams."

would you elaborate with stats, especially explaining what "best" means in that statement?

@manchesterutdI
"I disagree with what he said. This is a stupid topic to talk about." "As far as 35+ guarantee, I call bs on that. They would be injured a lot there and marked more. 40? Yeah, when I walk on the moon. I'd say 30-ish would be about right."

it doesn't look like you disagree, you say they would score around 30 goals, which is nothing supernatural like the numbers we are seeing lately right? because if it goes on like this we'll see numbers like 50+, Ronaldo at least.
about the stupidity of the topic, i thought a while before posting it exactly because similar topics always end in Messi vs Ronaldo or League A vs League B lame debates. i wanted to see if this kind of topic could be debated constructively, perhaps analyzing things instead to go full retard with X is better than Y. and i am pleased, even a bit surprised to be honest, to see that the discussion didn't take a lame turn. the stupidity of a topic depends on its potential depth and on the kind of feedback it receives. if presented to me, a topic like this, instead of going with "X league is best", i'd go with "what differences there are between the various leagues?"
see? the 1st response would end in a lame debate, the 2nd instead offers a wide field to debate with, if one is interested in doing so.

@Shpalman

" btw i see Ronaldo scored 6 goals in 5 games in this CL, i don't understand where that 17 comes from."

• The 17 comes from last season, which he scored in 11 games. Just in case you were sleeping during the record-breaking season. Messi had scored 14 in the same number of games at his best.

Ronaldo vs. Serie A teams

AS Roma - 4 games, 3 goals, 1 assist
Juventus - 2 games, 3 goals, 1 assist
AC Milan - 6 games, 2 goals, 1 assist
Inter - 2 games, 1 goal

Total: 14 games, 9 goals, 3 assists. This is with him playing against AC Milan when they were actually good, and Roma when he was a youngster with United.

Messi vs. Seria A teams

AC Milan - 8 games, 8 goals, 4 assists
Inter - 3 games, 0 goals

Total: 11 games, 8 goals, 4 assists

Yes, that's Messi's record against a treble-winning Inter Milan side, and AC Milan when they were at their best in the last 5 years.

Ronaldo has averaged 0.64 and Messi has averaged 0.73 against the best of Serie A teams over a wide period of time. In their prime, Ronaldo has only faced Juventus, and Messi has faced Milan 2-4 times. Looking at how poor Italian teams are now, there should be no doubt that Messi/Ronaldo in their prime can rip them apart... especially since Real Madrid are outstanding right now and Barca are finally getting the Neymar-Suarez-Messi combination to click.