BOMB: CR7&Messi would score way less in the Serie A - Llorente

shpalman 9 years ago Edited

AC Milan, Italy 55 2252

@Dynastian

ok i see even counting Roma and Juventus, Ronaldo still averages at 0.64 total, but if you just take Milan and Inter, doesn't look anything supernatural, does it? i don't know what teams you picked there as relevant or best, because regarding Messi (who is more fresh in my memories) you forgot to mention a few relevant facts:

of the 8 goals, 4 were penalties.
vs the good (not best, good) Milan in 2011/12 he actually scored just 3 pens in 4 games.
vs the mediocre Milan in 2012-2014 (2 seasons) he was able to score 5 goals in 4 games. 1 still being a penalty.
vs Inter, nada.

i don't know, to me all the data seems to support my point.

Showing previous versions of this text.

2014-12-11 00:31:04

@Dynastian

ok i see even counting Roma and Juventus, Ronaldo still averages at 0.64 total (currently in La Liga is above 1 per match), but if you just take Milan and Inter, doesn't look anything supernatural, does it? i don't know what teams you picked there as relevant or best, because regarding Messi (who is more fresh in my memories) you forgot to mention a few relevant facts:

of the 8 goals, 4 were penalties.
vs the good (not best, good) Milan in 2011/12 he actually scored just 3 pens in 4 games.
vs the mediocre Milan in 2012-2014 (2 seasons) he was able to score 5 goals in 4 games. 1 still being a penalty.
vs Inter, nada.

i don't know, to me all the data seems to support my point.

Pupper 9 years ago

Juventus 0 214

Penalties does not count as goals now? And I think Messi and Ronaldo would still score the same amount of goals in Serie A, if not more. I don't really see the logic in comparing their stats against top sided italian teams in the Champions League, especially when Serie A has dropped so much in quality during that time.

This statement may have been true back in the day, when Serie A was actually known for their defending. As it is now, their defending are just like any other league really, or worse.

Dynastian98 9 years ago

Real Madrid 483 7140

@Shpalman

Those are their records against Italian teams throughout their entire careers. I did not distort or selectively display the data in any way. Like @Pupper said, Serie A is not the same beast of the 90's and early 00's, and Ronaldo/Messi will be as successful (if not more) against Serie A team.

shpalman 9 years ago Edited

AC Milan, Italy 55 2252

@Pupper, oh come on, you get the point on penalties.

@Dynastian, surely when it comes to players, Serie A is at its historical low, i believe. the economical difficulties are blatant, but while this had a major hit on the big 7, the rest of middle/low table teams aren't that much diferent from the past. there's a fall in player quality there too because clubs gave more space to average foreigners instead to keep growing italian youngsters (and that's something which is happening generally in Europe too); but what i tried to put under the lightspot of the discussion was the difference in tactical approach of the mid/low table clubs vs big clubs. i think the only one who caught this point in the discussion was Tuanis.

in my opinion a big difference in the leagues is made by those clubs and their approach, that's why i would much more analyze that instead of just looking at "goal stats". take the last Getafe-Barcelona for example: Getafe went full-on with an good old fashioned shiny Catenaccio; and there you got clean sheets.

now think about all the middle/low table clubs having that kind of attitude in La Liga, every sunday, don't you think it would mean harder times for Messi and Ronaldo in terms of scoring opportunities? that (Catenaccio et similia) is what would pretty much happen in Serie A; we would see a different story in the Bundesliga, where no much weight is given to the defensive phase and the football culture is more open-attack minded. the Bundesliga, thats's where we would surely see Messi and Ronaldo to be even more succesful in terms of goals imo.

Showing previous versions of this text.

2014-12-14 22:40:26

@Pupper, oh come on, you get the point on penalties.

@Dynastian, surely when it comes to players, Serie A is at its historical low, i believe. the economical difficulties are blatant, but while this had a major hit on the big 7, the rest of middle/low table teams aren't that much diferent from the past. there's a fall in player quality there too because clubs gave more space to average foreigners instead to keep growing italian youngsters; but what i tried to put under the lightspot of the discussion was the difference in tactical approach of the mid/low table clubs vs big clubs. i think the only one who caught this point in the discussion was Tuanis.

in my opinion a big difference in the leagues is made by those clubs and their approach, that's why i would much more analyze that instead of just looking at "goal stats". take the last Getafe-Barcelona for example: Getafe went full-on with an old good fashioned shiny Catenaccio; and there you got clean sheets.

now think about all the middle/low table clubs having that kind of attitude in La Liga, every sunday, don't you think it would mean harder times for Messi and Ronaldo in terms of scoring opportunities? that (Catenaccio et similia) is what would pretty much happen in Serie A; we would see a different story in the Bundesliga, where no much weight is given to the defensive phase and the football culture is more open-attack minded. the Bundesliga, thats's where we would surely see Messi and Ronaldo to be even more succesful in terms of goals imo.

2014-12-14 22:40:26

@Pupper, oh come on, you get the point on penalties.

@Dynastian, surely when it comes to players, Serie A is at its historical low, i believe. the economical difficulties are blatant, but while this had a major hit on the big 7, the rest of middle/low table teams aren't that much diferent from the past. there's a fall in player quality there too because clubs gave more space to average foreigners instead to keep growing italian youngsters (and that's something which is happening generally in Europe too); but what i tried to put under the lightspot of the discussion was the difference in tactical approach of the mid/low table clubs vs big clubs. i think the only one who caught this point in the discussion was Tuanis.

in my opinion a big difference in the leagues is made by those clubs and their approach, that's why i would much more analyze that instead of just looking at "goal stats". take the last Getafe-Barcelona for example: Getafe went full-on with an old good fashioned shiny Catenaccio; and there you got clean sheets.

now think about all the middle/low table clubs having that kind of attitude in La Liga, every sunday, don't you think it would mean harder times for Messi and Ronaldo in terms of scoring opportunities? that (Catenaccio et similia) is what would pretty much happen in Serie A; we would see a different story in the Bundesliga, where no much weight is given to the defensive phase and the football culture is more open-attack minded. the Bundesliga, thats's where we would surely see Messi and Ronaldo to be even more succesful in terms of goals imo.