Penalty

No penalties

I'm not crying about result or anything, I'm not saying we deserved a win, but when you get so many crucial goals against you, it's a fucking joke.

So how come the ref that was close and put it on the spot is wrong, Henry is wrong, Carragher is wrong, Neville is wrong, some ex pro ref is also wrong, everyone that actually can admit that it's a contact and thus a penalty is wrong but a few of you guys are always above everyone else and you must be right?

I rest my case, there was a clear contact, clear foul, I even posted a video showing how Hazard reacts to being fouled ( which was blown by the ref) and it's the same reaction as the penalty foul, so you guys don't have an argument.

@Golazo Could you stop acting like there is an absolute in football? There isn't, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It would be nice if you tried understanding that there is sometime no right or wrong but just different way of seeing thing and that you don't need to rub what you believe to be truth (or know to be the truth) into the face of other people. Sorry if it seem like I'm trying to tell you what to do, I just don't really like it when people shot down other people opinion even its not my own.

So how come the ref that was close and put it on the spot is wrong

how come Mike Dean celebrate a goal as a referee and make tons of stupid decisions every match? how come Bobby Madley overrun a linesman decision who saw a player offside and let the goal STAND even when it was scored by an arm?

Are you still gonna say Hazard didn't overreact and dive like Bellerin broke his leg and finished his career?

This is diving

Difference between this and Hazard? That you ain't going to ban one of the biggest star in the league for the diving.

Could you stop acting like there is an absolute in football? There isn't, everyone is entitled to their opinion

This is where you're wrong. Denying the obvious reality is what you called "having my own opinion", fact is he got kicked and the ref awarded the penalty, Bellerin never touched the ball it was a reckless tackle.
Like it's so hard to just admit that it was a penalty? Really? Is it really that hard to see it?
Give yourself a break, you all are acting as if it was a dive when it's clear that he got hit in the foot and fell down, you will never admit it because of your own entitled opinion that is not worth a penny, in the end of the day there is an absolute and that was the refs decision regardless if you want to believe it or not he had the absolute right to put the ball on the penalty spot there.

So it's not really me being stubborn it's you. You just decided that it's not even close to a penalty and no matter what is presented to you, it's not enough, because like you say, all players fall the same way...I think you are losing the plot Emo, sorry but this isn't some cruel world where Arsenal got robbed by that penalty, I can agree on other things and situations but that call is totally justified.

@quikzyyy

Watch the video I posted on the previous page, Hazard didn't overreact one bit, this is how he always reacts when he is fouled, no difference. Watch it 100 times and then watch the penalty tackle 100 times, he got kicked and fell as usual in a foul situation.

And Wilshere diving or not and not getting a second yellow or not I don't even care, he played good the whole game the ref maybe didn't want to give him a yellow for that and just said play on, it's not even what we are discussing, the game today is not like it was 25 years ago if you're naive like Bellerin to think that you can kick a players foot without even touching the ball in that tackle you're always putting yourself at risk, it wasn't a clean tackle at all.

@Golazo You do realize from the start I said I agreed with you about it being a pen? I just didn't think you presented a good proof with that video of your, thats all I said. But hey, don't mind me, I'm obviously losing the plot. :P

@Sunflash @quikzyyy Seriously guy, at this point, I would just forget it. I don't think you will convince Golazo, he is alway like this, stuck with his opinion and convinced he is right. And to be fair, the more you reply to him, the more he get offensive and personal. Might as well focus only on other comment.

So if people are bullheaded, stupid, and refuse to consider any evidence beyond their own, they should just be left alone? I mean fair enough I suppose, but this internet arguing thing is an exercise that I somewhat enjoy...

Let me break this down point by point:

If I understand right, his points (by his own words) that this situation is:

a) Hazard didn't overreact one bit, this is how he always reacts when he is fouled, no difference. Watch it 100 times and then watch the penalty tackle 100 times, he got kicked and fell as usual in a foul situation.

b) Bellerin never touched the ball it was a reckless tackle.

c) even Henry your biggest legend said so

d) There was contact that stopped a player without even touching the ball, that's against the rules.

e) It's not a dive when he was clearly hit on his foot. So everything you said is just based on fantasy.

f) go ahead and get randomly kicked while trying to control the ball and tell me how you were not fouled

All of those are quotes from this thread that I think summarize the points quite well. I'm going to ignore the immature baiting and laughing videos because I want this to stay on topic and dragging people off topic is what certain people do best.

Counterpoints:

a) Neymar, Ronaldo, Messi, literally everyone in game reacts the same way regardless of if they are diving or not. It is not as though Neymar has a special tell when he dives, otherwise the ref would know it and easily not call it a dive. If a dive is done properly, it mimics an actual foul perfectly. That's literally point. So obviously Hazard reacts the way he does when he's actually fouled. This point is meaningless.

b) Not touching the ball does not make something a reckless tackle. Open a dictionary and find out what the word means before throwing it out so liberally.

c) Pundits should never be used as sources. Henry's opinion is not infallible.

d) This is the best argument you have, for the record, and the source of our disagreement. I would like to reiterate, contact itself does not mean a foul. Players go down all the time when they feel contact in the box and the PK is rarely given - because contact is not equal to a foul. The exact reason I disagree with you is because the contact does not give Bellerin an undue advantage over Hazard, so by the rulebook, no foul is committed. Hazard goes down because of CONTACT, not because of a foul. It is up to the referee at the point to make the decision of whether the contact was enough to take him down or not. Hazard dove, we all know this - that contact was not going to take him down on its own. The referee decided that Bellerin had an undue advantage, something that with the benefit of replay and a no-pressure situation, I strongly disagree with.

e) If we were walking beside one another on a sidewalk and my foot came into contact with yours, you would not fall down. If you did, it was not because of my foot, it was because you decided to fall down. Hopefully you understand the parallel I'm drawing here.

f) Players come into contact with each other all the time, and 99% of the time there is no foul. I think it would at this point be worth looking at how fouls in soccer are defined, it's long and tedious, so I'll simply it for you:

Excessive Force: basically endangering the safety of an opponent, obviously didn't happen here
Impeding Progress: Any type of grabbing, holding, whatever, you usually see these on counters in the midfield, didn't happen here
Reckless Action: "player has made the move with complete disregard for danger or consequences to his opponent" (I don't know why this is different from excessive tbh) again, didn't happen here
Direct Fouls are the so called "group of six" and are: pushing, striking, charging, jumping, tripping and opponent, none happened here
The last of the sixth is the one we're looking at, you cannot kick an opponent (on purpose) that's a default foul. However, this was obviously not the case here. So we go deeper. Because it was accidental and not dangerous, that leaves us with the illegal advantage. Did Bellerin get an illegal advantage? Because Hazard went to ground, it's impossible to know 100%, but I thought it was the contact was not enough, and therefore should not have been whistled a pen. That, in situations and circumstances similar to this, is what usually happens, more than once a game in the 18-yard box.

This is a lot to read through, but I want you to understand why I think this is the case. I am not some blowhard internet troll who cannot see past my United-colored glasses. Rightly or wrongly, that's exactly how I perceive you. Prove me wrong.

Uhmn...

Controversial calls are always interesting...

As for Hazards, there was a soft contact, different refs might give different calls and either of them would be 100% right, nor 100% wrong. Say if that was in Semi Final and 80 min and a draw, 10% ref would call. But if it's 20 min 80% would call, it's also the pressure of the crowd the consistency of intention of the foul committer.

Sometimes a call is to warn and to punish potential dangerous fouls (especially rough players).

Sometimes refs feel guilty because he was harsh to one team so he does the opposite. this case we often said: 2 wrongs dont make it right!!! but it's fair in away

Those decisions are made when there are doubts 50/50 or 60/40. Ref must make a call while consulting with his assistant. Some refs suck a lot and conflict each other. ESPECIALLY MIKEY MOUSE.

Sometimes missing a ball is NOT a foul (even if slight contact are made and that contact isn't enough for the other to loose balance),

@SunFlash made good & clear points here and I like the arguments, although I also think it's a pen in this case.

@Golazo: I agree with @Emo, there are no absolute, especially when it's around 60/40 calls. And TV Pundit bullshit a lot of time

Hazard didn't overreact one bit, this is how he always reacts when he is fouled, no difference

So, it's you, who has never played football, you react the same whenever someone barely touches you or makes some 2 footed challenged from behind. I'm done, there's no point of arguing with you, you see video, images yet you're living in your own perfect reality.

Well you guys probably see Hazard as a diver then.
No problem, but real fans know he's not a diver and that he didn't dive.
The penalty is clear, many people that comment about the game agreed with the ref and knowing how Hazard reacts to fouls showed consistency in his reaction, so real fans know he was really fouled, you have your own right to be stubborn and thinking the opposite, meaning that every time Hazard reacts like that he is actually simulating and diving. There is no other option, either you see Hazard as a diver or you can just agree that he got kicked, and that it was a foul.

PS. Sunflash has no point here, there was contact = Thus penalty. The whole fantasy of Bellerin never doing anything wrong is just inventing stuff and there is no going around that fact because it's super clear that there was contact that obstructed Hazard in an unfair way, the challenge of Bellerin showed him only hitting Hazards foot and never the ball, that's enough.

The video evidence showed Bellerin hitting Hazard thus ending any possible debate about Hazard not losing any advantage, fact is he was on the ball and got kicked and fell. So out of everything said, at least it's clear that Sunflash is 100% wrong because that tackle is always going to be a foul and whoever tries to argue the opposite is just clueless, the harsh truth but still truth.

The video clearly shows a reckless tackle, that's a clear foul anywhere on the pitch regadless if Hazard is a soft player or if it was Messi or Ronaldo there all would want a foul there. So no, I'm not going to accept bashing Hazard since it's a clear foul.

Also look at Hazards all game, he falls down twice in the whole game, both times the ref blew a foul, he never searches for contact but he does react when getting fouled:

People who are angry at their own club ( with themselves) often look for other reasons to justify their pathetic performances even when there is a clear video that shows there has been a contact. Their eyes are often full of anger and sh*t just like their words. I rather sit back and enjoy the season because this year it will be another year of Arsenal out of top 4.

Now the real talk/ Last season Arsenal fans and Wenger were moaning that not playing CL made it easy for Chelsea to win the title, well now it is your turn to back it up, boys . Talk the talk walk the walk! Do it and stop crying!

SunFlash has a good point as for general rule and contact, it does not mean it's perfectly applied in this case. I can see that more people think this was a missed challenge that caught the feet and therefore a Pen, but live with it if there are people think otherwise

You have to accept that there are different opinions on a tight calls, some are more toward the wrong and some toward the right!

PS. Sunflash has no point here, there was contact = Thus penalty.

Sigh...I literally wrote a handbook for you. I understand why the pen was called. This is not why the pen was called. I don't agree with the decision, but I understand those who do, and all I'm looking for is a little reciprocation.

I'm actually disheartened now.

People who are angry at their own club ( with themselves) often look for other reasons to justify their pathetic performances even when there is a clear video that shows there has been a contact.

Yes well now we know. Cause even with all the video evidence that shows how consistant Hazard is with his reactions when getting foul calls, replay of the tackle from Bellerin and other experts view on the penalty, nobody even tries to hint on what Neville said, which is that it's actually Bellerin that did a naive challenge on Hazard.
The frustration to point out all fingers at Hazard calling him a diver even when there is no evidence to support that and nobody is reflecting on how poor the defending of Arsenal actually was is not showing the proper respect to the opposition.

So for the future, we can apply the same attitude towards their own players. If they can't be fair why should we be towards them?
And I actually said when it was 2:1 that a draw should be a fair result, I was sympathizing towards Arsenal despite all the missed chances, before and after Bellerin scored but now in their eyes they were robbed and Hazard is a diver...OK.

@Sunflash Don't worry Sun, I think you made some very good point! You deserve all the +1 you get for taking the time of making all those counterpoint, which are pretty good in my opinion.

Now the real talk/ Last season Arsenal fans and Wenger were moaning that not playing CL made it easy for Chelsea to win the title, well now it is your turn to back it up, boys . Talk the talk walk the walk! Do it and stop crying!

you didn't even play in Europa, what are you talking about?

@Golazo You can see in the video, you can see the picture that Hazard is holding his shin, not even the place where Bellerin touched him and you will still say something like Hazard never dives, he is always making same reaction despite you see the video. I asked you few things, you never answered it.

but real fans know he's not a diver and that he didn't dive.

here, you can read all 911 comments how real fans know it was a penalty and how everyone except you in this planet is wrong and Hazard is saint who was almost killed.

100% not a penalty. it's was crap cross that was too close for the player to react and it was going to hit the defender anyway as for the Leicester one it more of a pen although it was too close for the player to react aswell but the Leicester player came running out like a goalie trying to make himself big with his arms wide open

You can see in the video, you can see the picture that Hazard is holding his shin, not even the place where Bellerin touched him and you will still say something like Hazard never dives, he is always making same reaction despite you see the video. I asked you few things, you never answered it.

What does it matter where is he holding his hand at one specific frame when he got hit on his foot? If he always holds his leg after a foul on him who are you to claim that he dived?

1. Ref calls of some fouls on Hazard, sample of his reactions of falling and holding on the leg which he got hit on is consistent to the foul of the penalty call, every single reaction is consistent to all fouls that he got in his favor, thus not diving a single time:

1. Ref call on the penalty on Hazard, same consistency as all fouls presented in the video above, ref was very close and saw the whole thing, watch at slower speed and you will clearly see a hit on the foot which pushed his whole foot causing him to lose control over the ball, everyone around see the foul including Fabregas automatic attention towards the ref right after he also sees the hit:

1. Hazard vs Arsenal, never dived, had fallen twice at 4:00 and 4:04, both of which the ref judged as a foul, rest of the challenges were on the ball and Hazard didn't fall once:

Henry said it was a penalty, Carragher said it was a penalty, ex pro ref said it was a penalty, Neville said after watching the replay that there was a contact and that Bellerin was naive to make that challenge.

Always a foul, never a dive. Unless you ignore these facts:

1.Bellerin hitting Hazard

2.Bellerin missing the ball

3.Bellerin having no control of the ball

4.Hazard taking control of the ball

A clear hit on a players foot and not on the ball is always a foul, always an obstruction of the game flow, regardless if inside the box or outside the box.
If you ever tried to play football in real life you would know this, when you have the ball and someone hits your foot without even touching the ball, it's a foul.

A final summary of the penalty incident, proving that Hazard didn't dive, after watching all these videos and seeing the evidence of how he plays and what is a definition of a foul, how can someone still say that he dived? Biased much against Chelsea?

When all you have is a hammer, everything look like a nail.

MY god @Golazo Hazard is a diving twat get over it, maybe your biased because you were a fan of both of these teams before you spent all that money to become a chelsea fan, @ Sunflash thank you for taking time to address the ridiculous-ness of @Golazo argument, you should probably have you blood pressure checked out.

@Golazo i am really starting to think your just taking the piss,
When Emobot7 is disagreeing with you its probably a sign that you are talking some bs,
YOu post a bunch of videos of hazard getting tripped and think that proves your point , WHAT are you smoking man, please share it with the rest of us...

MY god @Golazo Hazard is a diving twat get over it, maybe your biased because you were a fan of both of these teams before you spent all that money to become a chelsea fan, @ Sunflash thank you for taking time to address the ridiculous-ness of @Golazo argument, you should probably have you blood pressure checked out.

No he's not, you don't prove anything by insulting him :D

When Emobot7 is disagreeing with you its probably a sign that you are talking some bs,
YOu post a bunch of videos of hazard getting tripped and think that proves your point , WHAT are you smoking man, please share it with the rest of us...

I'm sorry for proving that Hazard didn't dive, the video evidence shows it, now you can only mock and insult since you already had a pre-determined opinion on the matter.