What's up people.

For a while, I wanted to start a series in which we discuss some questionable ref calls. Originally, I joked with a Footyroom member about this, but would like to actually make this a legitimate discussion on this forum. Welcome to the Footyroom Council of Referees, people!

Rules for FCR: Post videos about something that will actually drive a discussion. Try not to post something that the vast majority will agree upon.

1. Stay on topic. You may use examples from different scenarios, but please come back to the discussion.
2. Keep calm. This is a discussion, so keep it classy
3. Easy with the conspiracy theories. If you'd like to bring it up, fine as long as you don't dwell on it. We are talking about what we would do as refs, not if team A paid the refs to beat team B.

Alright, so for the first scenario: The ref disallowed a goal for Higuain in the second leg of the UCL semi-finals against Barcelona back in 2011. Basically, Ronaldo "fell" on Mascherano, who clearly dove when he realized he couldn't keep up with Gonzalo. What do you guys think?

a) Was the ref right or wrong?

b) If Javier didn't dive, would the decision by the ref be accurate?

3) Why would the ref call the foul after Higuain took his shot? Is there a rule that tells you calls DON'T have to be immediate?

Discuss!

This video's quality is pretty sh!te, but it's the only one i can find.

Actually a very interesting thread to make. I will participate even though I don't consider myself one of the greatest judge for these kind of thing. On the case you are talking, I think the ref is in the wrong there. First off, Javier does seem to goes down easily and while I believe it would have been impossible for Ronaldo to trip on Mascherano in a intentional manner, I guess I could to an certain point understand him giving a fault if that what he thought happened. Most of all, the fact he waited as long as after the shot to whistle make it look worse for him. The way I see it, the ref propably didn't see the action well and hesitated a bit before making his choice. Wich was the wrong one in my humble opinion.
But what are your thought Madridista?

I wouldn't have called anything. Ronaldo takes some contact and goes down but it's not a foul, Mascherano goes down again via contact that isn't enough to bring him down, so as a ref I just play on.

What's hilarious is that Mascherano probably does get hit enough to make him fall, but the way he goes down would've sold the fact it was a dive if I had the ref's field of view.

@Emobot I agree with what you said, and by the way, your participation is much appreciated.

As for my thoughts, would you like the rational, calm and collected fan in my head to speak on this matter, or would you prefer the Madridista tank to roll out?

I wouldn't call it as well. If there was an actual contact, I'd probably put more thought into it, but this play here ruined our chances of advancing.

Madridista Tank: Hell NO. UEFALONA AT IT AGAIN! HOW MUCH HAVE YOU PAID THE REFS YOU SCUM? I SWEAR ON EVERYTHING...

@Sun That's one reason why I really can't wait for replay tech for refs. The thing with Mascherano (Actually, many others included) is the fact that they've made a reputation for themselves. I think one penalty for flopping around is actually not rewarding certain players all the time. That's of course if its a questionable call, don't oppress the guy if he actually got bulldozed.

Epic idea!!!

@Emo, if you slow down the video to about 0.5 speed you can clearly see the ref did not hesitate and called the foul (0:33 on the video, you can see ref whistling and the ball was rolling with Higuain out of frame) as soon as Masche went down.

In regards to the call yea there is contact on Masche's foot from Ronaldo's fall, its a very very soft foul but in the end a foul. It affected the only defender in a position to challenge the striker so it has to be called. His exaggeration is quite common as players believe they need to make every foul seem so much more than what it is and we see this every game.

Fair call.

It was a legitimate foul - however unintentional. Mascherano might not have caught up to Gonzalo, but that doesn't mean you don't call a foul in the midst of play.

Fair call,

I just dont like how they overreact in general (sometimes it's a dive, sometimes it's to make a clear signal to the ref). The collision was unintentional but indeed impacted his defense.

Btw, great idea for the thread!

We would need another controversial call now... maybe something from the Barca vs PSG game, like Mascherano tackle on Di Maria inside the box?

I urge anyone before commenting on Di Maria's play to slow the video down to 0.25. Its really hard to see where Masch could foul him before he even touched the ball (if you have the video slowed down and pause at 0:18 you can see Di Maria already hit the ball and Masche is just now tackling him). You see Di Maria sprinting away he looked up to see the keeper and across to see if he has back up and by the time he is going to kick the ball Masche is already on his back putting his body off balance but not in a way to be a foul. Di maria clearly meant to slot the ball on the keeper's top right and he wiffed it. Watch him in Argentina and he does this very regularly.

Given the fact the I had to watch this replay on slow motion and from 2 different angles and even then had to pay extreme attention to the timing of the tackles it was incredibly hard for the ref to make this call in real time. It honestly could have gone either way but I agree with the ref's decision not to award a foul.

Keep em coming! I love re watching plays like these, especially with the multiple angles and slow motion lol.

@raimondo Ok mate, what bout the red card in the CL final? Bad quality I know but I realised that the card might have been deserved after all. Thought?

We would need another controversial call now... maybe something from the Barca vs PSG game, like Mascherano tackle on Di Maria inside the box?

Clear penalty. Proven. Mascherano said it himself.

@Emo i'll take Mascherano's word for it lol

As for the Ramos one, it's kinda too obvious that it is not a red.

Lol Ramos flopped big time on that one. I think fans unanimously agree that wasn't deserving of a card. Doubt Juventus would have caught up anyways. They were psychologically beaten by that point.

@Dynastian For sure, the win was already acquired by then, it just made Real look less classy imo.

Talking about Real Madrid, there was this fault in the game against Bayern, Vidal was the one commiting it and he got a second yellow because of it:

So, what you think, was it a second yellow because it was a dangerous action? Or was it not because Vidal get the ball?

@Emo I didn't really think it deserved a second yellow, but seeing it from that angle it does seem like Cuadrado goes out his way to step on Ramos's foot when he could have just gone around him. Ramos's acting is embarrassing afterwards though, but I'd say it did deserve a second yellow.

What do you guys think about this one? Barcelona-Arsenal game from 2010/2011 Champions League where Van Persie gets a second yellow because he tried shooting the ball after ref called offside and stopped the play. Was the ref right or wrong on this one? How else could he have handled the situation?

@Yvan21 A lot of player shoot the ball after the ref call for offside, really not something worth getting a second yellow card for imho. :(

@Emo Vidal does seem to catch Asensio's left foot and the ball. If you set the video to 0.25 speed you can see how Asensio's boot shakes from the contact. It's really hard to catch at normal speed.

And yes, a lot of players do what Van Persie did so that was shocking when I saw it.

guys give us time to comment on the videos, please! Lol

@Emo That one is rather interesting. I remember after El Clasico I brought it up to compare that situation with Ramos' red card. I'll copy and paste it right here:

"Now, as for the red card, I'll try my absolute best to make a case as to why it was a yellow instead of a red. But before that, I must mention that the refs did a good job this game. 8/10

Some of you might argue that 1) it was a two-footed tackle and that it was a counter attack. I see your logic, and it was a tough call for the ref. But check this out: Vidal's tackle on Asensio was a two-footed tackle, only that he made contact with the ball before Asensio, making it a proper tackle. Ramos' tackle on the other hand was also a two-footed tackle, but it didn't make contact with the ball nor Messi, making this a red card? Also, speaking about fouls on counter-attacks, there's a HUGE difference between a tackle from behind and a face-to-face tackle.

So, if you found this to be a red card in your opinion, what's the difference between Vidal and Ramos' situations? If Vidal touching the ball makes this legal then, shouldn't Ramos not touching the ball nor the player make the tackle valid as well?

I think, and I'm being honest here, the red card was shown because of the reputation Ramos has. I guarantee you had this been someone else, a yellow would've been shown. But players like Ramos, Costa, Pepe etc have created this image for themselves and there's no one to blame but for them."

^ Now to elaborate, I'm not saying Ramos did not deserve a red. I was just asking for consistency in making calls. At the end of the day, the ref should penalize on reckless actions and not the outcome. It's like saying a guy shot a bullet at someone but missed so he sholudn't go to jail lol.

@Madridista Was it the same ref who did both game? Anyway, I don't think Ramos is more deserving than Vidal of a red card with his tackle on Messi in El Classico.