To me you guys were just discussing what exactly "legends" to fans and clubs, so everyone entitled to their own opinions... and I think Arsenal's fans have more say in this debate.

If you guys think I was wrong for calling them legends, then I was wrong. I like they way you put it as "those two a great players that you have very fond memory of", If I was Arsenal fans I would like to think Cecs was a legend, but then I'm not

You're exactly right, @tuan. A Arsenal fan will know more about their legends than us, but saying Squillaci is a bigger legend than the two combined is just a Arsenal fan who is letting his emotions block a fair judgement.

I wouldn't call it heart breaking, cheer up Arsenal it happens.

Also LOL quikzyyy.

This is not "heartbreaking".Past is past,I wished good luck to these players,to see them playing well.Now they play one against another.No "heartbreaking" feelings,just Respect and good luck to them.

"This is not what Jesus died for."-Crazy.

@KH Agree with you.

@vendetta they are the opposite of what club legends are. And legends are exactly about that, feelings. They're not about performance or goal scored, they're about how the fans feel about them. Arsenal fans hate RVP, and don't care about squillaci. So squillaci is closer to being a legend than RVP. Hence the squillaci comparison. I think a lot of people here don't exactly grasp what this means to arsenal fans, because this is something that's happened a lot to arsenal in recent years but not to other big clubs. It would be like saying that figo is a barcelona legend, or sol campbell is a tottenham legend. I don't know what barça and tottenham fans would think about that.

Oh Sol, legend says he's still sliding.

@quikzyyy Haha,that was one of funniest moments in football! Sol Campbell was a classy player.Best part is that Croatia had 2-0 lead! :D

^I was just about to mention this particular case.

It doest matter how good a player is while playing for a club or what his stats were for a certain period with that club. What really matters for fans is the loyalty and dedication of that player.
To put it in an extreme case with United. If lets say Cleverly decided to stay at United for the rest of his career and retire in the very same club that he debuted in he will still be more of a legend than Tevez who just left United for City.

Everyone can have their definition of a legend for their club but I dont think stats are the way to define a player as a legend.

What did Figo is different from what Ronaldo phenomeno did, Ronaldo wanted to stay but Barça was forced to sell him to Inter for 25M to deal with the financial crisis, and it wasnt a direct move + he stayed only one year at Barça. ( Inter fans were more angry about him when he left to Madrid ).
Figo insisted to leave while Barça just won the league, after years of work with limitted budget, he had no reason to leave and if he leaves, all Europeen clubs were at his feet, he had just one team to avoid.

The only one comparable to Figo lately for the fans disrespect is Gotze, who opened the way for Lewandowski.
I would blame more RVP than Cesc who didnt directly moved to Chelsea and Arsenal refused to bring him back if they wanted.
Figos case was like saying Iniesta move to Madrid, he was loved as a native and has been given the captaincy with the Catalunian colors on his arm. I still think the reaction was harsh but since nobody could do the same move.
At the opposite, Luis Enrique who moved from Madrid to Barça is considered as a Barça Legend.

It all depends on the circumstances of the transfer . In my book a legend is a player who has given at least 3-4 years of his career to our club ( footballers careers are short , so it is appreciated greatly ) and made great impact on our club. For example , Bosingwa is not our legend , but Pauolo Ferreira is our legend . Even though Bosingwa played the CL final, his performance was assisted by some greater powers , because I was on the edge of my seat every time attack was coming from his side and witnessed miracle after miracle .

@kinghenry talking absolute sense here. Exactly my feelings, thx 4 that. Especially "They're not about performance or goal scored, they're about how the fans feel about them." obviously winning things is a very small part of it. Like marcus said, f.e Bosingwa is hardly a legend. And tbh Cesc & RvP barely won anything at Arsenal.

@marcus & @tiki I agree there are lots of factors that matters calling player "a legend". But at the end of the day it's pretty clear most of the times inside the fans who is legend and who is not.

I'd say Tomas Rosicky is a legend, always had a great relationship with fans, always given 100% & been at Arsenal for long time. If he'd now go back to BvB or somewhere else, I wouldn't be too mad as much as I like him, because he deserves much more playing time.

I've liked the reaction of some Man Utd fans, that still like Welbz. The coach made 100% clear that Welbz isn't wanted there, and he is at age where he needs to play consistently, as a striker. I think Arsenal can provide that. He hasn't talked any shit of Man Utd, and obviously still has Man Utd in his heart, which is fully understandable - having played there since his youth.

I don't think there's lot to discuss about RvP's move. Everybody who knows the circumstances and the background story of it, knows the 'truth' (although it's an opinion at the end of the day).

@Marcus: That's harsh. I wouldn't place Bosingwa as a legend because every team gets only a handful of legends every generation - and Bosingwa isn't one of them; the same goes to Paulo Ferreira. BUT I will definitely remember Bosingwa (even more than Paulo) because of how much of a warrior he was (like in 2012 CL final) and how good he was before his career-changing injuries.

My point is, and this is directed to everyone, is that legends is not something to be said lightly in football.

Fabregas, Van Persie, Rosicky legends of Arsenal? No way.

Cesc is a could-have-been legend who left the club at an early age, despite having memorable moments with them and spending some time as their captain, only to eventually move to a rival club. RVP was almost a legend after his amazing season in 2011/12 but then he left for United and that was that. Rosicky is a long-serving player for Arsenal but what is he going to be remembered for? He wasn't a talent like Fabregas or Van Persie. He's the type that will be respected by Arsenal fans whenever he's remembered, but his problem once his career is over is that he doesn't have much to be remembered for. Just like Bosingwa.

Personally speaking, the least you can show to players like Fabregas and RVP (both never insulted Arsenal after joining rivals) respect for serving the club with 100% professionalism and motivation. But that's another topic.

To be a legend you require two things:

1. Something to be remembered for, like a certain skill or memorable moment. (P.S. Being a bench-player/rotation player does not make you a legend, ever)

2. To have stayed in a club for a long period of time (without moving to a rival club) or retiring there.

Henry, Bergkamp, Tony Adams. Those are the actual legends. They fill the criteria for both #1 and #2 and will definitely be remembered for a long time - unfortunately for Rosicky and Bendtner, their names won't be remembered in Arsenal history for too long. No matter how loyal they were.

To bring an end to this silly rant: Stop saying Squillaci or Rosicky are f*cking legends. That terribly lowers standards to what a legend really is.

A true legend is someone to who will have his name showered in praise long after he dies, whether it's for a club or for a country.

@KingHenry

If you think Squillaci is more of a club legend than RVP or Cesc, then our conversation here is done. You're being blinded by your emotions. A look at the contributions of RVP and Cesc compared to Squillaci will show you who performed more for the club, and who gave more to remember.

It's ON like DoNkEy KoNg ...

First and foremost, a club legend should love the club he has been playing in for all eternity. It goes without saying that he should be equally loved by the fans. Furthermore, he should have EITHER put in a substantial amount of time in the club or had archieved something extraordinary in the club. RVP and Fabregas fall on all above. I mean 7 years without a trophy for RVP and then leaving for one of Arsenals most fierced rivals and on top of that being hated by the Arsenal fans? Or Fabregas who already declared his love for the blues and couldn't care less about Arsenal? I'd say being a club legend has nothing to do with being a fantastic player, but I'll let Arsenal fans decide this matter for themselves.

Anyways, it's a stupid conversation with people disagreeing on the definition of the word. Each and everyone are entitled to their own opinion + You'll only make people upset.. like the cry baby above who calls for the moderators in despair.

@V I know very well that squillaci is not a legend of the club, he was laughing stock, it was to make a point. The point is RVP is not a legend and Cesc is not a legend either, he would have come close but decided to leave very early in his football carreer. I'd say rosicky without the injuries and with more success and trophies would be a legend of the club right now, because he stayed for so long after every other player from the midfield he was part of left (Hleb, Fabregas and Flamini). Right now I'd say our player who could become a legend in the future would be Walcott. He's been with us since he was 16 and there was that famous match against spurs in january :

If he manages to bring the club success in the coming years he'll be a club legend. But I agree with you about what makes a legend. And obviously Squillaci is NOT an arsenal legend. Once again it was to make a point.

@dynastian That's not what being an arrogant prick is, I get annoyed at people on here, and I guess we all do sometimes. And sometimes I am rude. When people seriously piss me off. ************** And once again, instead of thinking to yourself after I've pointed it out "could I be wrong ? is it possible that someone is more clever than me ? is it possible that an Arsenal fan would be more informed than I am about arsenal and how arsenal fans feel ? could it be possible that arsenal fans are more entitled to decide who is and who isn't an arsenal legend than I am ?" ***** I talk about my club, and when I say something about MY club I know I'm more informed than you in every possible way. Like you're more informed than me about real madrid in every possible way and I will respect your opinions about that. ********** People acting entitled and arrogant about MY club when, for obvious reasons, if they really are interested in arsenal, they should be learning from actual arsenal fans and not from their arrogant selves.

I stand by my first point, Squillaci is more of a legend than these two put together.

!!!Edited by mod - please dont use offensive language!!!

@KTBFFH Spot on about Fabregas and RVP. I would add that Fabregas joining Chelsea is like canceling all he's done for the club, and joining Manutd or Chelsea is like insulting the fans. Yes fans are very fickle and have a lot of pride, but that's how they are. I think the conversation is a nice conversation to have, what legends are and who can be called a legend. It's just that I'm sensitive about my club, and for once I'd like for some people to know their place.

Frank Lampard is an absolute Chelsea legend, thats all i know :)

@KingHenry

Check your wall, I already made a post on it. I believe I said that it was my opinion, and I wasn't stating it as a fact. You're the Arsenal fan here, no denying that. You know more about your club than I ever care to know. I'm stating, from my point of view, Cesc and RVP are deserving of being club legends. If you disagree, you're entitled by all means. Again I repeat: it's my opinion. You're entitled to your own.

If the message has not yet gone across, then this thread is pointless.

"But you try to teach me something about my club and belittle my opinions ?"

Again, I'm not trying to belittle your opinions. I'm pointing out that you might be blinded by bias by stating that Squillaci is more of a legend than RVP or Cesc. It's okay, we all have that bias. My bias is that Ronaldo is better than Messi. It doesn't mean it's true. It is just my bias. Your bias is completely just, I understand you. Just try to understand me instead of going on in a rant on what type of person you believe me to be. It's fair to call them both club legends."

"**I am not saying I am a better Arsenal fan than you. If you knew their contributions to the club already, you would accept that they have been two of the best players you've had in the last 10 years**. I'm just saying that you are blindly hating on Cesc and Robin."

Notice the repetition of 'I's. I'm referring to my OWN opinion.