Ok, continue from my last post (England's first game under Big Sam which they won 1 0 against Slovakia).

This one dedicates to talk about Rooney's deep role on the field that I think was horribly performed.

Rooney is an English icon, same with the club, his contribution over the years have been well recognized and appreciated. He earned that. But Im afraid that they are living on his past.

In my opinion, his deep role is as confusing as the time we had with Luis van Gaal. Yes, I said it again and again, it doesn't work. He doesn't have the vision of Xavi, magical feet of Iniesta, directing game of Modric, all combined and killer instinct of Messi, playing him there just make the mid a huge confusing mess!!! More importantly he has passed his best.

His work ethic is still there, a true soldier, legend to some, but keeping him and assuming he would be a great ACM is just plain wrong. This is happening in Manchester United too.

He's not a lethal striker either, not anymore, but he's better up there than running around in the mid. He needs some revolution on his own, and I think to have that he needs to be benched.

What's your thought on this?

The problem with Rooney is that he plays for the team and not for himself. Neither England nor United play for him. Rooney never had the same level of service like Ronaldo, Messi, or even Ibra since 2011. His vision and tempo dictation are better than average, but in no way as good as Xavi's or Modric's. Moreover, Xavi had world class players in Iniesta and an above average Cesc for Spain. Modric plays with Kroos. Who does Rooney play with in midfield? Henderson? Fellaini? While Carrick is good defensively, he's slow, and doesn't offer much going forward. At the present, there is no player in the England or United team that can complement Rooney in midfield. Rooney in midfield is a better player than other midfielders in his teams as both the teams have no shortage of quality striking options. Regarding today's match, Kane was horrible. For the most part, majority of England was very stationary off the ball. No one except Lallana or Walker were making any decent runs. You can not really blame Rooney for that. Having said that, Rooney in midfield is a failed experiment, that still continues for some confusing reason as that is not his best position and he can not be complemented there.
Rooney's best position is playing off a striker, but if he plays off Kane, he will not have anyone providing him service. Same goes with United under LVG. I have said that several times in the past. LVG had very rigid tactics. Rooney was asked to play alone up front when the midfielders could not provide anyone with decent service. Rooney has played well when Herrera and Carrick played in the midfield and he played CAM/ off the striker where he had service. While there is no doubt that he is on the decline, and is not the Rooney of 2003-2010, blaming him alone is not the solution. Rooney has never been an out and out striker, and needs to play off someone else. His killer instinct has regressed due to his midfield role. If Jose/Sam can play a 4-4-2, I think you'll get the best from Rooney. But Jose doesn't play 4-4-2. Benching him is not the solution as you will not get the best out of him in a 4-3-3 unless the CAM plays more of the striker. I think it would be in Rooney's best interest to go to a club that plays 4-4-2 and England should switch back to a 4-4-2 instead of a 4-2-3-1 to get any where near his old self.

People should be, and are, willing to make excuses for Rooney. I personally think he's a fantastic player, one of the most well-rounded in the world. But the second someone can play his position better, he should be made to relinquish it. For United, that day may be before the end of the season. For England...I don't know. Who else are you going to play there? Henderson? Drinkwater? I'm not certain they are better options.

His role is DMF but for opponent's side. He cutting United's attacks and help opponent to go to counter attack.

So Rooney win his 4 last match and you think he should be benched, ok make sense. :P Nah, but joking aside, I agree Rooney is really living a confusing thing right now. His position is not really clear, his skill are not as good as it were and while he try pretty hard and is ready to work hard for his team, he just sometime feel inadequate. Other time, I think he try too hard as well, he need to find a good balance, understand his own role and do what he must without overdoing it. He need to complement others more and try to act as a more supportive role.

Rooney is just a name he isn't a good player imo,i think they are so much better players than him/

@livpollfcangryfan Hum, maybe your a tiny bit biased? ;p

He needs to be benched for sure, play last 15 or 10 minutes of the game as Ferguson used to do with Sheringham.

I think the long and drawn out debate about his position has affected him. When he was playing in midfield last season, he didn't play that bad at all. His passing and vision is obviously not on the level of Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, etc. but neither are his striking abilities on the level of Ibra, Lewandowski, etc. I fully agree with ashwin that he plays for the team and not for himself and maybe that is his fault. But I still think that his best position is not as an out and out striker. LVG only put him in midfield in the first place when everybody was shouting for him to benched and everybody was saying he shouldn't play as a number 9. In the number 10 role I think he can still be important to the team, and he is also one of those players who bring leadership and motivation with them wherever they go. He should not be benched because either way he has at the most 1-2 years left in him. Until then, I say use him fully.

Rooney does play for the team, and for that we all love him.

But so what? I have the feeling that this is the exact reason why his teammates were confused and it's counter productive. He needs to stay up there, become the guy playing right behind the strikers.

He shouldn't run around to much and try to boss the mid field, he just doesn't have the ability for that. His quality is only for attacking and raping the defenders, not directing the play. He needs a change, something that calm him down (being benched might help).

For now, it's not enough time since the new season to tell which one is more suitable than him in his current role. Although I believe his shadow causes that too, give the others the chance to try and they might shine, they might aid him too.

at this point, rooney is more of a brand than anything else

Atm he is the best option in England and probably in his club too, i dont underrate his work he does so many things on a pitch despite not being perfect in any, but in midlefield he can help or as a false nine. For me he will keep his place in the starting unless Mikhitaryan delivers. Mou looks to be counting on him and atm he didnt dissapoint, he wasnt 10/10 mark either. I wont bench him yet if i was Mou, he knows he must deliver to keep his place and atm he isnt flopping. Only time and big games would give Mou a response. He looks okay with Zlatan and lately he made a last minute beatiful assist. Im mixed but i want Mourinho to give him his chance to perform.

Now, lets dig up this thread again.

Before playing against Northamton. I say its time to bench him.

For the team and for him, he needs to have his head clear and get some kind of motivation :(

@tuan_jinn Hum... I really don't know anymore, he sometime play ok but when he does play bad, ugh... I dunno, we'll see, would be nice to see a rotation of player from Mourinho maybe giving more chance to younger player.