tiki_taka
10 years ago
Edited
Nice post mate.
-International trophy cabinet isnt empty :
World cup 2005 U20 (removed) :
He got the best player and scorer awards.
2006 World Cup.
An injury that kept Messi from playing for two months at the end of the 2005–06 season jeopardised his presence in the 2006 World Cup. Nevertheless, Messi was selected in the Argentina squad for the tournament on 15 May 2006. He also played in the final match before the World Cup against the Argentine U-20 team for 15 minutes and a friendly match against Angola from the 64th minute.He witnessed Argentina's opening match victory against Ivory Coast from the substitutes' bench.
In the next match against Serbia and Montenegro, Messi became the youngest player to represent Argentina at a World Cup when he came on as a substitute for Maxi Rodríguez in the 74th minute.He assisted Hernán Crespo's goal within minutes of entering the game and also scored the final goal in the 6–0 victory, making him the youngest scorer in the tournament and the sixth youngest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup. Messi started in Argentina's following 0–0 draw against the Netherlands.In the following game against Mexico, Messi came on as a substitute in the 84th minute, with the score tied at 1–1. He appeared to score a goal, but it was ruled offside with Argentina needing a late goal in extra time to proceed.José Pekerman left Messi on the bench during the quarter-final match against Germany, which they lost 4–2 on a penalty shootout.
2007 Copa América.
Messi played his first game in the 2007 Copa América on 29 June 2007, when Argentina defeated United States 4–1 in the first game. In this game, he showed his capabilities as a playmaker. He set up a goal for fellow striker Hernán Crespo and had numerous shots on target. Carlos Tevez came on as a substitute for Messi in the 79th minute and scored minutes later.
His second game was against Colombia, in which he won a penalty that Crespo converted to tie the game at 1–1. He also played a part in Argentina's second goal as he was fouled outside the box, which allowed Juan Roman Riquelme to score from a free kick, and increase Argentina's lead to 3–1. The final score of the game was 4–2 in Argentina's favor and guaranteed them a spot in the tournament's quarter-finals.
In the third game, against Paraguay the coach rested Messi having already qualified for the quarter-finals. He came off the bench in place of Esteban Cambiasso in the 64th minute, with the score at 0–0. In the 79th minute, he assisted a goal for Javier Mascherano. In the quarter-finals, as Argentina faced Peru, Messi scored the second goal of the game, from a Riquelme pass in a 4–0 win. During the semi-final match against Mexico, Messi scored a lob over Oswaldo Sánchez to see Argentina through to the final with a 3–0 win. Argentina went on to lose 3–0 to Brazil in the final. Messi was elected young player of the tournament.
2008 Summer Olympics : Gold medal.
Messi playing against Brazil in the semi-finals of the 2008 Olympics
Having barred Messi from playing for Argentina in the 2008 Olympics, Barcelona agreed to release him after he held talks with newly appointed coach Pep Guardiola. He joined the Argentina squad and scored the first goal in a 2–1 victory over Ivory Coast.He then scored the opening goal and assisted Ángel di María in the second to help his side to a 2–1 extra-time win against the Netherlands.He also featured in Argentina's match against rivals Brazil, in which Argentina took a 3–0 victory, thus advancing to the final. In the gold medal match, Messi again assisted Di María for the only goal in a 1–0 victory over Nigeria.
2010 World Cup qualification
On 28 March 2009, in a World Cup qualifier against Venezuela, Messi wore the number 10 jersey for the first time with Argentina. This match was the first official match for Diego Maradona as the Argentina manager. Argentina won the match 4–0 with Messi opening the scoring.Overall, Messi scored four goals in 18 appearances during the South American 2010 World Cup qualifying process.
2010 World Cup
Messi and Argentina lost 4–0 against Germany in the quarter-finals of the 2010 FIFA World Cup
In the 2010 FIFA World Cup, Messi wore the number 10 shirt for the first time in a major tournament. He played the entire game on Argentina's opening match of the tournament, the 1–0 victory against Nigeria. He had several opportunities to score but was repeatedly denied by Nigerian goalkeeper Vincent Enyeama, who was named man of the match by FIFA.Messi started in Argentina's following 4–1 win against Korea Republic; he played in more of an attacking midfielder and playmaking role under Maradona, and participated in all of the goals of his team, helping Gonzalo Higuaín score a hat-trick.In the third group match, Messi was named captain for Argentina in a 2–0 win over Greece. He was again the centrepoint of Argentina's play, playing an important role in both of his team's goals, and was voted man of the match.
At the Round of 16 he assisted Carlos Tevez for the first goal in a 3–1 (removed) against Mexico. The World Cup ended for Argentina with a 4–0 loss against Germany in the quarter-finals.
Messi was nominated in ten player shortlist for Golden Ball award by FIFA Technical Study Group. The group identified Messi with the following words: "Outstanding in his pace and creativity for his team, dribbling, shooting, passing – spectacular and efficient".
2011 Copa América
On 17 November 2010, Messi scored a last-minute goal against South American rivals Brazil after an individual effort to help his team to a 1–0 (removed) in the friendly match, which was held in Doha. This was the first time that he had scored against Brazil at senior level.Messi scored another last-minute goal on 9 February 2011 against Portugal from a penalty kick which gave his side a 2–1 victory in the friendly match, which was held in Geneva, Switzerland. He had also previously assisted the first goal.
Messi took part in the 2011 Copa América in Argentina, where he failed to score a goal but made three assists, finishing as the joint top assist provider of the tournament.He was selected as man of the match in the group matches against Bolivia (1–1) and Costa Rica (3–0). Argentina were eliminated in the quarter-finals in a penalty shoot-out against the eventual by the (removed) of the Copa América, Uruguay (1–1 a.e.t.), with Messi scoring as the first penalty taker.Messi had also previously assisted Higuaín's equaliser in the seventeenth minute.
I think its decent for an International career at his age, maybe the best is yet to come but i a ctually cant tell you if he is definitely the best player...
In modern Football, im gonna say Yes for me, but the whole History ? I dont know.
Maybe at the end of his career we can have a better view but what he has done until now is impressive.
International trophy cabinet isnt empty :
World cup U20 winner in 2005.
He got the best player and scorer awards.
2006 World Cup.
An injury that kept Messi from playing for two months at the end of the 2005–06 season jeopardised his presence in the 2006 World Cup. Nevertheless, Messi was selected in the Argentina squad for the tournament on 15 May 2006. He also played in the final match before the World Cup against the Argentine U-20 team for 15 minutes and a friendly match against Angola from the 64th minute.He witnessed Argentina's opening match victory against Ivory Coast from the substitutes' bench.
In the next match against Serbia and Montenegro, Messi became the youngest player to represent Argentina at a World Cup when he came on as a substitute for Maxi Rodríguez in the 74th minute.He assisted Hernán Crespo's goal within minutes of entering the game and also scored the final goal in the 6–0 victory, making him the youngest scorer in the tournament and the sixth youngest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup. Messi started in Argentina's following 0–0 draw against the Netherlands.In the following game against Mexico, Messi came on as a substitute in the 84th minute, with the score tied at 1–1. He appeared to score a goal, but it was ruled offside with Argentina needing a late goal in extra time to proceed.José Pekerman left Messi on the bench during the quarter-final match against Germany, which they lost 4–2 on a penalty shootout.
2007 Copa América.
Messi played his first game in the 2007 Copa América on 29 June 2007, when Argentina defeated United States 4–1 in the first game. In this game, he showed his capabilities as a playmaker. He set up a goal for fellow striker Hernán Crespo and had numerous shots on target. Carlos Tevez came on as a substitute for Messi in the 79th minute and scored minutes later.
His second game was against Colombia, in which he won a penalty that Crespo converted to tie the game at 1–1. He also played a part in Argentina's second goal as he was fouled outside the box, which allowed Juan Roman Riquelme to score from a free kick, and increase Argentina's lead to 3–1. The final score of the game was 4–2 in Argentina's favor and guaranteed them a spot in the tournament's quarter-finals.
In the third game, against Paraguay the coach rested Messi having already qualified for the quarter-finals. He came off the bench in place of Esteban Cambiasso in the 64th minute, with the score at 0–0. In the 79th minute, he assisted a goal for Javier Mascherano.[198] In the quarter-finals, as Argentina faced Peru, Messi scored the second goal of the game, from a Riquelme pass in a 4–0 win. During the semi-final match against Mexico, Messi scored a lob over Oswaldo Sánchez to see Argentina through to the final with a 3–0 win. Argentina went on to lose 3–0 to Brazil in the final. Messi was elected young player of the tournament.
2008 Summer Olympics : Gold medal.
Messi playing against Brazil in the semi-finals of the 2008 Olympics
Having barred Messi from playing for Argentina in the 2008 Olympics, Barcelona agreed to release him after he held talks with newly appointed coach Pep Guardiola. He joined the Argentina squad and scored the first goal in a 2–1 victory over Ivory Coast.He then scored the opening goal and assisted Ángel di María in the second to help his side to a 2–1 extra-time win against the Netherlands.He also featured in Argentina's match against rivals Brazil, in which Argentina took a 3–0 victory, thus advancing to the final. In the gold medal match, Messi again assisted Di María for the only goal in a 1–0 victory over Nigeria.
2010 World Cup qualification
On 28 March 2009, in a World Cup qualifier against Venezuela, Messi wore the number 10 jersey for the first time with Argentina. This match was the first official match for Diego Maradona as the Argentina manager. Argentina won the match 4–0 with Messi opening the scoring.Overall, Messi scored four goals in 18 appearances during the South American 2010 World Cup qualifying process.
2010 World Cup
Messi and Argentina lost 4–0 against Germany in the quarter-finals of the 2010 FIFA World Cup
In the 2010 FIFA World Cup, Messi wore the number 10 shirt for the first time in a major tournament. He played the entire game on Argentina's opening match of the tournament, the 1–0 victory against Nigeria. He had several opportunities to score but was repeatedly denied by Nigerian goalkeeper Vincent Enyeama, who was named man of the match by FIFA.Messi started in Argentina's following 4–1 win against Korea Republic; he played in more of an attacking midfielder and playmaking role under Maradona, and participated in all of the goals of his team, helping Gonzalo Higuaín score a hat-trick.In the third group match, Messi was named captain for Argentina in a 2–0 win over Greece. He was again the centrepoint of Argentina's play, playing an important role in both of his team's goals, and was voted man of the match.
At the Round of 16 he assisted Carlos Tevez for the first goal in a 3–1 win against Mexico. The World Cup ended for Argentina with a 4–0 loss against Germany in the quarter-finals.
Messi was nominated in ten player shortlist for Golden Ball award by FIFA Technical Study Group. The group identified Messi with the following words: "Outstanding in his pace and creativity for his team, dribbling, shooting, passing – spectacular and efficient".
2011 Copa América
Messi (right) challenging Granit Xhaka for the ball during an international friendly between Switzerland and Argentina on 29 February 2012.
On 17 November 2010, Messi scored a last-minute goal against South American rivals Brazil after an individual effort to help his team to a 1–0 win in the friendly match, which was held in Doha. This was the first time that he had scored against Brazil at senior level.Messi scored another last-minute goal on 9 February 2011 against Portugal from a penalty kick which gave his side a 2–1 victory in the friendly match, which was held in Geneva, Switzerland. He had also previously assisted the first goal.
Messi took part in the 2011 Copa América in Argentina, where he failed to score a goal but made three assists, finishing as the joint top assist provider of the tournament.He was selected as man of the match in the group matches against Bolivia (1–1) and Costa Rica (3–0). Argentina were eliminated in the quarter-finals in a penalty shoot-out against the eventual (removed) of the Copa América, Uruguay (1–1 a.e.t.), with Messi scoring as the first penalty taker.Messi had also previously assisted Higuaín's equaliser in the seventeenth minute.
I think its decent for an International career at his age, maybe the best is yet to come but i a ctually cant tell you if he is definitely the best player...
In modern Football, im gonna say Yes for me, but the whole History ? I dont know.
Maybe at the end of his career we can have a better view but what he has done until now is impressive.
Now I have a question, and it takes more thinking to it than you might expect.
For about 3 years now, Leo has been heralded as one of the greatest ever. If you asked me to name my top 5 players, I'd name Leo as 5th (behind Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane, and Beckenbauer). Many people will include players like Di Stefano, Pele, Puskas, and Garrincha ahead of Messi.
Regardless of these things, Messi has already won numerous trophies at club level, enough to be considered an all time legend. But his international trophy cabinet is empty.
Now that he's in the World Cup final, would winning the World Cup make Leo Messi undoubtedly the greatest ever player?
Well, here's my contribution to this discussion. I think that measuring a player by how many World Cups he has won is a poor measurement of talent. Puskas is one of the greatest ever footballers, but lost in the World Cup final in 1954, and never saw World Cup football again. Alfredo Di Stefano never even played in a World Cup. And more recently, Cristiano Ronaldo once again failed to lead his country to any form of success in the World Cup.
So is the World Cup an apt method of judging a player? Yes..... and no. Success comes because of the team, not just because of one player. Di Stefano never managed to be part of a World Cup squad because of unfortunate events around him, and because his national team was poor at the time. Cristiano Ronaldo and George Best in their prime never had a good national team, so the only way to measure their success is by club level.
But, it does take something else to light up a World Cup. This is a tournament that comes along only once every four years. You will be playing with players that you aren't necessarily familiar with, albeit the fact that they are your countrymen. Messi probably only knocks around a ball with di Maria 6-8 times a year. That's an incredibly short amount of time to build chemistry.
But, on the chance that you do manage to shine in the world's premier football competition... history is made. Over the past half-century, Ballon d'Or winners have often been players who have done well in the World Cup (only Europeans were allowed to win back then, so you won't see your Garrincha's or Pele's or Maradona's on that list of previous winners). That in and of itself states the importance of the World Cup. The chance to make yourself shine, and lead your country to be the best in the world.
Maradona shone in '86. Zidane shone in '06. Puskas in '54. Garrincha in '62. These household names were mostly made because of the World Cup. Common knowledge will state Pele's greatest achievement as his 3 World Cup victories. Maradona's? His performances in '86 made him an absolute legend.
How does Messi fare into this theory? Well, for starters, football has evolved. Defending is as tight as ever, and it is more difficult to dribble past an organized defense now (on the other hand, ironically, the greatest ever defenders were all pre-2000, with Maldini and Roberto Carlos being the last legendary defenders). It is much more difficult for Messi to dribble past 3 and lay in a pass than it was for Maradona.
With this in mind, analyzing Messi's performances so far, he has done averagely well. He hasn't taken the World Cup by storm the way players like James Rodriguez have, and he hasn't been as consistently dangerous as players like Thomas Muller. But, he has been the one man who's been dragging defenders away, and slipping in clever passes, and popping up in the right place to score a goal or two.
Granted, he's been largely ineffective after the knockout stages. All his goals have come in the group stages against Bosnia, Nigeria, and a measly Iran. His inability to break past the Swiss, Belgian, and Dutch defense will be criticized.
However, his performances should not be overlooked. His game against the Netherlands was poor, but he gave a crucial assist to di Maria in extra time against the Swiss to win the game, and he was the master of the park in midfield against Belgium.
Has he matched the quality of Maradona with his performances? No. But he's still done fairly well, and his World Cup campaign should not be overlooked. Argentina would not have made the final without the massive goal threat that Leo Messi poses to each and every team they face. The resolute tactics of the Dutch to shut down Messi every time he touched the ball is an example of how dangerous they consider him.
And of his 4 World Cup goals so far, Argentina would not have won any of those games without his goals. And of the 4, 2 were match winners. That should say a lot about his contribution already.
Now back to the original question. Should Leo Messi be considered the greatest of all time if he wins the World Cup in 2014? The answer requires a complicated thought process, and different people may come to different conclusions.
My personal opinion is that Leo Messi was always missing that World Cup from his trophy cabinet. It's not fair to judge a player simply based on "does he have a World Cup or not?". But it does take something special to light the world's greatest stage for football up. Messi hasn't lit up the World Cup, but he has done very well. Well enough to suggest that if Argentina beat Germany, he will get plenty of plaudits for his team's victory. He hasn't been the impact that Maradona was in '86, but he's still been crucial. Leo Messi, if he wins the World Cup this summer, will be, in my opinion, the greatest football player of all-time.
Now I have a question, and it takes more thinking to it than you might expect.
For about 3 years now, Leo has been heralded as one of the greatest ever. If you asked me to name my top 5 players, I'd name Leo as 5th (behind Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane, and Beckenbauer). Many people will include players like Di Stefano, Pele, Puskas, and Garrincha ahead of Messi.
Regardless of these things, Messi has already won numerous trophies at club level. Enough to be considered an all time legend. But his international trophy cabinet is empty.
Now that he's in the World Cup final, would winning the World Cup make Leo Messi undoubtedly the greatest ever player?
Well, here's my contribution to this discussion. I think that measuring a player by how many World Cups he has won is a poor measurement of talent. Puskas is one of the greatest ever footballers, but lost in the World Cup final in 1954, and never saw World Cup football again. Alfredo Di Stefano never even played in a World Cup. And more recently, Cristiano Ronaldo once again failed to lead his country to any form of success in the World Cup.
So is the World Cup an apt method of judging a player? Yes..... and no. Success comes because of the team, not just because of one player. Di Stefano never managed to be part of a World Cup squad because of unfortunate events around him, and because his national team was poor at the time. Cristiano Ronaldo and George Best in their prime never had a good national team, so the only way to measure their success is by club level.
But, it does take something else to light up a World Cup. This is a tournament that comes along only once every four years. You will be playing with players that you aren't necessarily familiar with, albeit the fact that they are your countrymen. Messi probably only knocks around a ball with di Maria 6-8 times a year. That's an incredibly short amount of time to build chemistry.
But, on the chance that you do manage to shine in the world's premier football competition, history is made. Over the past half-century, Ballon d'Or winners have often been players who have done well in the World Cup (only Europeans were allowed to win back then, so you won't see your Garrincha's or Pele's or Maradona's on that list of previous winners). That in and of itself states the importance of the World Cup. The chance to make yourself shine, and lead your country to be the best in the world.
Maradona shone in '86. Zidane shone in '06. Puskas in '54. Garrincha in '62. These household names were mostly made because of the World Cup. Common knowledge will state Pele's greatest achievement as his 3 World Cup victories. Maradona's? His performances in '86 made him an absolute legend.
How does Messi fare into this theory? Well, for starters, football has evolved. Defending is as tight as ever, and it is more difficult to dribble past an organized defense now (on the other hand, ironically, the greatest ever defenders were all pre-2000, with Maldini and Roberto Carlos being the last legendary defenders). It is much more difficult for Messi to dribble past 3 and lay in a pass than it was for Maradona.
With this in mind, analyzing Messi's performances so far, he has done averagely well. He hasn't taken the World Cup by storm the way players like James Rodriguez, and he hasn't been as consistently dangerous as players like Thomas Muller. But, he has been the one man who's been dragging defenders away, and slipping in clever passes or popping up in the right place to score a goal or two.
Granted, he's been largely ineffective after the knockout stages. All his goals have come in the group stages against Bosnia, Nigeria, and a measly Iran. His inability to break past the Swiss, Belgian, and Dutch defense will be criticized.
However, his performances should not be overlooked. His game against the Netherlands was poor, but he gave a crucial assist to di Maria in extra time against the Swiss to win the game, and he was the master of the park in midfield against Belgium.
Has he matched the quality of Maradona with his performances? No. But he's still done fairly well, and his World Cup campaign should not be overlooked. Argentina would not have made the final without the massive goal threat that Leo Messi poses to each and every team they face. The resolute tactics of the Dutch to shut down Messi every time he touched the ball is an example of how dangerous they consider him.
And of his 4 World Cup goals so far, Argentina would not have won any of those games without his goals. And of the 4, 2 were match winners. That should say a lot about his contribution already.
Now back to the original question. Should Leo Messi be considered the greatest of all time if he wins the World Cup in 2014? The answer requires a complicated thought process, and different people may come to different conclusions.
My personal opinion is that Leo Messi was always missing that World Cup from his trophy cabinet. It's not fair to judge a player simply based on "does he have a World Cup or not?". But it does take something special to light the world's greatest stage for football up. Messi hasn't lit up the World Cup, but he has done very well. Well enough to suggest that if Argentina beat Germany, he will get plenty of plaudits for his team's victory. He hasn't been the impact that Maradona was in '86, but he's still been crucial. Leo Messi, if he wins the World Cup this summer, will be, in my opinion, the greatest football player of all-time.