Forum
{{ post.commentCount }}

Didn't find anything.

{{ searchResult.errors[0] }}



Lionel Messi is Impossible.
tiki_taka 10 years ago
Barcelona, France 367 9768

By BENJAMIN MORRIS

In their Group F World Cup match late last month, Argentina and Iran were still deadlocked after 90 minutes. With the game in stoppage time and the score tied at 0-0, Lionel Messi took the ball near the right corner of the penalty area, held it for a moment, then broke left, found his seam, took his strike and curled it in from 29 yards. What was going to be a draw was now a win, and Messi had put Argentina into the Round of 16.

It was the sort of play that inspired the phrase “Messi magic.” But for those who only watch soccer when the World Cup rolls around, this was probably only the second (or at most third) goal they’d seen from the little man they call La Pulga (“The Flea”). Despite having 407 career goals in club and international play (including a record 91 in 2012 alone) and a record four Ballon d’Or (World Player of the Year) awards, until this year’s tournament, Messi hadn’t scored in a World Cup match since 2006.

Since scoring an eerily familiar goal in the 2007 Copa Del Rey, Messi has constantly been compared to Argentine great and his former national team coach Diego Maradona. Despite his young age — he turned 27 on June 24 — Messi has taken substantial criticism in Argentina and elsewhere for failing to engineer a World Cup run like that of the man with the “Hand of God.”

To Argentina devotees, it probably doesn’t help that during Messi’s tenure at FC Barcelona the club team has won two FIFA Club World Cups to go with six La Liga and three UEFA (All-European) championships.

Perhaps this year will be different. Messi is finally having the kind of World Cup expected of him. He has scored in every game so far (four goals overall), including one on a beautiful free kick against Nigeria and the aforementioned game-winner against Iran. As of this writing, FiveThirtyEight gives Messi and his compatriots a 16 percent chance of winning the tournament — second only to host nation Brazil.

Even though national teams are patchwork and only play together for a handful of games each year, how Messi plays with Argentina relates to what is ultimately a fair criticism of his success: Most of it has come for FC Barcelona, a free-spending virtual all-star squad, packed with many of the world’s best players.

As the primary striker for such a juggernaut, it can be hard to detangle Messi’s goal-scoring prowess from Barcelona’s general offensive dominance. And the 2013-14 season hasn’t helped: Battling minor injuries and facing competition for touches from superstar arrival Neymar, Messi’s most recent season was slightly below par by his standards, yet Barca finished second in La Liga. (And in the seven games Messi missed, they went 6-1.) He still scored 41 goals, but that total was less than the 60 he scored the year before, and fewer than the 51 that rival Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid scored en route to capturing the Ballon d’Or.

I think this criticism is fair — and I found it intriguing enough to look into the matter myself. So I gathered and organized data, crunched it, re-crunched it, and gathered more data2 and crunched it some more.

By now I’ve studied nearly every aspect of Messi’s game, down to a touch-by-touch level: his shooting and scoring production; where he shoots from; how often he sets up his own shots; what kind of kicks he uses to make those shots; his ability to take on defenders; how accurate his passes are; the kind of passes he makes; how often he creates scoring chances; how often those chances lead to goals; even how his defensive playmaking compares to other high-volume shooters.

And that’s just the stuff that made it into this article. I arrived at a conclusion that I wasn’t really expecting or prepared for: Lionel Messi is impossible.

It’s not possible to shoot more efficiently from outside the penalty area than many players shoot inside it. It’s not possible to lead the world in weak-kick goals and long-range goals. It’s not possible to score on unassisted plays as well as the best players in the world score on assisted ones. It’s not possible to lead the world’s forwards both in taking on defenders and in dishing the ball to others. And it’s certainly not possible to do most of these things by insanely wide margins.

But Messi does all of this and more.

SCORING :

I think it’s fair to say that goals mean more in soccer than points do in most sports. And Messi scores a lot of them. Since the end of the 2010 World Cup, Messi has been responsible for 291 goals and assists in the 201 of his games in club and national team play tracked by the sports analytics company Opta. How does that compare with other soccer stars across top leagues around the world? (The Opta data set includes 16,574 players and 24,904 games in both league and international play since the end of the 2010 World Cup.)

Coming in just behind Messi with 289 goals and assists since the 2010 World Cup is Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi’s rival from Real Madrid. When it comes to scoring, these two aren’t just on top of the pile, they’re hang-gliding somewhere way above it. Messi and Ronaldo have been compared to each other so often by sports media and fans alike that it almost feels trite to compare them again, but it can’t be helped. If we want to compare Messi to all players with a remotely similar volume of production, we’re left with Ronaldo.

Now let’s leave assists aside for a second (much more on them later), and concentrate on Messi’s shooting. Like Ronaldo, he has an enormous number of goals, but also takes an enormous number of shots. If this were basketball, we might expect a negative (or at least decelerating) relationship between shot volume and shot efficiency — the more shots a player takes the less efficient he is. But it turns out this isn’t really the case in soccer: More efficient shooters tend to take more shots. Despite this, Messi is still a trend-breaker:

Of the 866 players who qualified for that plot — by playing in 50-plus games and averaging at least one shot attempt per game — Messi is the ninth-most efficient shooter overall (Ronaldo is 173rd), and he’s by far the most efficient of anyone with a similar shot volume. The highest-volume shooter who is more efficient is Mario Gomez, the former Bayern Munich striker, who takes about two-thirds as many shots as Messi.

But in soccer, unlike in basketball, shooting efficiency isn’t the the single most important stat. Since the value of a possession in soccer is much lower, so is the cost of missing a shot (and missed shots often have good outcomes as well). That said, quality shot opportunities in soccer are still a limited resource, so making the most of them is important.

To generalize a bit, some of the value a shooter provides comes from taking more and better shots (e.g. taking them closer to the goal, at a better angle, amid fewer defenders, etc.), and some of it comes from putting in those shots more often. For example, Messi’s typical regular (non-set piece) shot comes from 14.9 yards out, while Ronaldo’s average shot comes from 20.1 yards out. ESPN/TruMedia has a model for estimating the chances of a player making each shot he takes based on type and location (this metric is known as expected goals). The difference between a player’s actual goals and his expected goals is called “goals above average” (or GAA). Because Messi takes shots that are more likely to go in, his average attempt has an expectation of .182 goals, while the average Ronaldo shot has an expectation of .124 goals — so we would expect Messi’s shooting to be more efficient based on that alone. However, Messi has also exceeded that expectation by a greater amount than Ronaldo has. Messi scored .220 goals per shot attempt for .038 GAA per goal. Ronaldo scored .139 goals per attempt, so he had .015 GAA per goal.

2
Comments
Dynastian98 10 years ago
Real Madrid 483 7140

@Tuan

Messi's Argentina team was outstanding, but what did he do in the knockout stages? He scored 4 goals in what was, per FIFA, the lowest ranked group out of all. He failed to make a significant impact against Belgium, Netherlands, and Germany, and only managed to provide that assist against Switzerland (he was invisible otherwise). Messi did garbage in the knockout stages of the World Cup. The only reason he even had a chance of being one of the top 5 players is because his name carries a heavy weight and because of his 4 goals in the knockout stages.

0
tuan_jinn 10 years ago Edited
Manchester United, Netherlands 198 6912

@Dyn: ok that sounds kinda like a hater... I really dodnt know what Argentina you watch... when you said they were outstanding???? and Messi did garbage... He was the main reason why they got through (wasnt invisible AT ALL against bus parking Switzerland)... and against Holland... the Dutch had an amazing WC campaign and we purposedly play a very rough and cautious game against Argentina... 10 Messi wouldnt make a different.

Let's say even if you right... did Ronaldo even had those 4 goals and several assists???... he kinda frustrated and embarrassed himself in the last game (grab and failed a freekick out of frustration)... cant blame him because his teammates sucked badly... but at least be fair... Ronaldo failed to do what you said to sound like some mediocre player who made it out top 5 because of some bad reasons....

To me in that world cup, Kroos was best, then Robben, James and Messi were on par (2nd).... then a bunch of German players... So a player who play in a team that against a BUNCH of champions is obviously better than a player who made a HORRIBLE WC campaign

2
  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

@Dyn: ok that sounds kinda like a hater... I really dodnt know what Argentina you watch... when you said they were outstanding???? and Messi did garbage... He was the main reason why they got through (wasnt invisible AT ALL against bus parking Switzerland)... and against Holland... the Dutch has an amazing WC campaign and we purposedly play a very rough and cautious game against Argentina... 10 Messi wouldn make a different.

Let's say even if you right... did Ronaldo even had those 4 goals and several assists???... he kinda frustrated and embarrassed himself in the last game (grab and failed a freekick out of frustration)... cant blame him because his teammates sucked badly... but at least be fair... Ronaldo failed to do what you said to sound like some mediocre player who made it out top 5 because of some bad reasons....

To me in that world cup, Kroos was best, then James and Messi were on par (2nd).... then a bunch of German players... So a player who play in a team that against a BUNCH of champions is obviously better than a player who made a HORRIBLE WC campaign

rayrex7 10 years ago
Real Madrid, Croatia 26 797

-

0
rayrex7 10 years ago
Real Madrid, Croatia 26 797

Sorry guys I couldn't edit

Do you hear fans chanting Ronaldo! Ronaldo! Ronaldo! When he plays a match
No.

Plus getting praise from fans is a completely different story than from coaches and players

Just look how coaches compare messi to ronaldo

Technically this is only my theory but ronaldo is trying to make. Coaches and players to think twice

Just recently blatter stated that ronaldo doesn't deserve the balloon d or but a German player. Does for winning the world cup, like wtf blatter??

But I think your wrong about being around superstars
For messi all the players are playing towards messi that's why before the arrival of neymar messi was the only player scoring for them

In Madrid it's almost like everyone wants to score if u see clearly they, plus they lack chemistry

For me I prefer a team that has 100% chemistry than a team with a bunch of good players, I just hope ancelloti thinks about the team than individual talent, and keep in mind that ronaldo was injured during the world cup plus I'll say it again Portugal weren't playing with their hearts it's like they heavily in ronaldo, but if they want to rely on him they should do their parts in assisting him, just like the game vs Sweden they all did amazing but it's like after the game vs germany

0
Dynastian98 10 years ago
Real Madrid 483 7140

Compared to Barcelona, the Madrid squad is garbage at chemistry. The only players that have chemistry and Benzema and Ronaldo. And Iniesta and Messi have been playing together for more than twice as long as Benz and Ronnie. Huge advantage there. Not to mention that Iniesta is (obviously) the better player when compared to Benzema.

0
WayneRooney 10 years ago
Manchester United, Argentina 52 488

i would say Real Madrid are playing amazing (same with barca). look at madrid, wining by a large margin. the players they have are incredibly amazing, kroos, modric, james, bale, isco, etc... with a coach like ancellatti( not sure if i spelled that right), this team looks unstoppable but of course we gonna have to wait till the classico to find out how good they really are.

@rayrex that just proves how good Messi is, they know he can do all of that stuff so they rely on him and yes before Neymar and Suarez came, Messi was mostly the only one scoring because honestly look at the players he was playing along side pedro(he is really good but misses a lot of chances) and Sanchez(also misses a lot of chances). Messi is the player you can rely on, you know he's going to make that pass thats going to make everyone wonder how in the world he did that. his goal record everyone knows is incredible, breaking muller's record in a calendar year is impressively amazing.

as for Ronaldo, i used to love him so much but his diving was so disgusting to watch and he still does it sometimes. his celebration against AM in the CL final, i mean why in the world did he do that? that was so unnecessary.

2
rayrex7 10 years ago
Real Madrid, Croatia 26 797

@Wayne Rooney u didn't get the point, if u r gonna rely on someone at least do YOUR PARTS

In Argentina most of the players are playing amazing aside of aguero however in Portugal they rely waaaay too much that maybe next time ronaldo May end up being a keeper

One thing messi lacks, is consistency by the years
For ronaldo, it's the exact opposite for me messi is already past his prime even though he's 28, just look at the difference between messi in 2010-2012 and 2012- now messi May retire with ronaldo

Plus everyone dives , EVERYONE dives, and I mean EVERYONE, but some over react the dive which already being over reacted

But I respect ur opinion and I'm not forcing to like ronaldo, I'm only giving my share of ideas

0
WayneRooney 10 years ago Edited
Manchester United, Argentina 52 488

@rayrex i still like Ronaldo and i see what ur saying, Argentina is a better team than Portugal, and they rely on ROnaldo wayyy to much.

and Messi is still Messi except hes not scoring as many goals as he use it especially after that injury but he still plays the same way he use to. and his dribbling is out of this world (even u must admit that noone in this world is comparable to Messi when it comes to dribbling).

but you and dynastian are right, Chemistry over anything

0
  • History
Showing previous versions of this text.

@rayrex i still like Ronaldo and i see what ur saying, Argentina is a better team than Portugal, and they rely on ROnaldo wayyy to much.

and Messi is still Messi except hes not scoring as many goals as he use it especially after that injury but he still plays the same way he use to. and his dribbling is out of this world (even u must admit that noone in this world is comparable to Messi when it comes to dribbling).

Dynastian98 10 years ago
Real Madrid 483 7140

@Rayrex

Don't listen to this kid. He hates Ronaldo for his celebration against Atletico, LOL.

2
WayneRooney 10 years ago
Manchester United, Argentina 52 488

lmaoo someone is mad

0
ashwin1729 10 years ago
Manchester United, England 10 705

@Dynastian98: I agree that Barca's chemistry has been built through years of training together, but if you analyse the classicos from say about 2007-2012 ish, the reasons Real lost are a myriad of factors: Lack of vision in midfield, shoddy defending (Pepe? & Ramos), and brilliance from Messi, Iniesta, & Xavi. Add to the fact that Real, along with other teams, were chasing the ball and getting tired easily. Jose fixed that to the most part, but I can't comment how effective he would have been if he had the dressing room's support. This Real team is loaded, but lacks some serious balance in that both Kroos and Modric play. Both are offensive players, and loosing Alonso will hurt you guys a lot in the long run.

0
rayrex7 10 years ago
Real Madrid, Croatia 26 797

@ashwin you are absolutely right, technically all our player are attacking minded, except for varane khedira and carvajal

Mourinho was a genius but ur right he couldn't connect with the players

But now ancelloti is trying to fix this, and hopefully he doesn't start pepe and Ramos together, I prefer Ramos/pepe and varane

During the Liverpool game, kroos modric and James were playing their roles pretty well, but still need to improve cause barca are still in amazing form in terms of defence and offence, however their defence still hasn't been perfect, and to prove that we will see in howthey are going to stop madrids attack

But best of wishes to both teams

0