I know this is on a short notice but share with us who between those 2 rivals you think will win, who have the best squad between them and why it is so. The debate is on. :D

You're biased as hell Gustavo.

Yes, I admitted that I was, but saying you'd accept Martial even without considering who in Liverpool is the equivalent in his position is the type of bias that's unacceptable in any discussion.

Sturridge on paper is probably the best striker in the EPL, only behind Aguero. Firmino is also better than any striker at Manchester United. Herrera and Can are both good players, but I'd pick Can for his potential, even if that was the only think he had.

And I didn't say I'd take Shaw over any Liverpool defender, I meant he is the only in the Man U roster I'd take to play for Liverpool. Sorry If I wasn't clear. Smalling is good, forgot about him before, but we've got 3 just as capable CBs.

Unfortunately the game ended 0-0, mostly thanks to the boring time-wasting tactics of an annoying manager, and this discussion won't go anywhere.

^ there was no time wasting ;) mourinho came and got what he wanted, it's called tactics unlike klopps filosophy, mourinho knows that drawing against the 'big teams' and winning against the small teams gets you the title.

@Chelsea

That's true, but I thought Mourinho made a living off beating the 'big guns'? ;)

Klopp's team played better offensively by far. Obviously Mourinho set his team up very defensively, but wasn't afraid to attack. I think Mou was concerned that if his team didn't prioritize defense, the game would become too open. And we all know how Liverpool love to shred teams in open games. In the end, I think Mourinho planned the game out well and won tactically. Klopp was never going to settle for a draw, but Mou managed to stop him and get what he wanted.

but saying you'd accept Martial even without considering who in Liverpool is the equivalent in his position is the type of bias that's unacceptable in any discussion.

I'm quite certain any team in the world with the possible exception of Real Madrid would take Martial regardless of who they have playing there now. The striker/winger potential that he has is too obvious to deny, and he was United's best outfield player last season - when he was 19 years old. After some quick searching, I find out that at LM/LW Liverpool normally plays...Origi. Yep. Standing by that statement.

Sturridge on paper is probably the best striker in the EPL

Even forgetting Aguero, he's not better than Lukaku, and statistics say he's significantly worse than Kane/Ighalo/Deeney/Giroud/Ibra/Rashford last season, and any player who has scored a goal in the EPL this season is statistically better than Sturridge, because, oh yes, he hasn't scored a single goal in 7 games this season. Best striker in the EPL, right.

Firmino is also better than any striker at Manchester United.

Do you even hear yourself? I'd not certain Firmino is a striker at all, but we'll roll with your definition. I stated that I don't believe Ibra is as good as the average fan thinks, but that is just insulting. I could bring facts and stats into this, but what would it serve? You already know the outcome.

You think that I'm bias, which is your right I suppose, even though I am perhaps United's largest critic on this forum. Whatever bias I do have however is dwarfed in comparison to yours. Sturridge is the second best striker in the EPL. Where do you get this stuff?

@dynastian yes he makes his living by winning the big guns ( the trophies) ;)

Where do you get this stuff?

"On paper" doesn't really mean anything, so to me when I say it it just means someone who has the most technical ability in them right now, ready to be used. Kane and Lukaku are great, still think Daniel is a better footballer, not by much though.

Origi has never really played LM/LW. We don`t really have wingers but like most of our midfield, the player on the "left" is interchangeable, Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Ings, Milner, Sturridge, and others have all played there, much more than Origi has.

"On paper" doesn't really mean anything, so to me when I say it it just means someone who has the most technical ability in them right now, ready to be used. Kane and Lukaku are great, still think Daniel is a better footballer, not by much though.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, it is your totally unsupported opinion that Sturridge is the second best striker in the league? Because to most people, including myself, "on paper" means facts, statistics, etc. Or need I remind you of your actual initial statement?

Sturridge on paper is probably the best striker in the EPL, only behind Aguero.

Make up your mind mate. I can't destroy your ship if you've already jumped off.

I was hoping for goals, but am not at all surprised by the result today.

Mourinho's treating his first season at United like his first on his return to Chelsea. Although winning the league would be nice, he's not going to risk losing out on the top four, for that.

Against rivals, he'll look to park the bus away, and win at home. That gives you a 4-1 point advantage over each of your rivals.

What people mean by "paper" isn't always the same. To me, sometimes paper doesn't only mean statistics. I'd say it can mean overall performance in their time as footballers, overall display of ability, and the overall potential to display those abilities and performances again for the foreseeable future. But human beings aren't perfect, and when we don't actively bring up facts, like statistics, our biases take over and our opinions become kind of meaningless.

When people say "on paper" they could mean only statistics or they could be talking about "class" and ability. If for example, Man U was in the bottom 3 right now and they were up against Bournemouth who are higher, some people might say that "on paper" the man u team is better even though if they were in the bottom 3 statistically they wouldn't be. You know, kinda like how Man U fans were going on earlier in this tread about Liverpool even though statistically Man U are mostly worse. I just wanted to use the phrase "on paper" to show people who were using it earlier how meaningless opinions can be.

Still think Sturridge is only second to Aguero in terms of footballing ability as a striker. ^^

There are two types of opinion imo:

Normal Opinion: This really has no reason for existing, and can be dismissed by:

Informed Opinion: This is an opinion that is backs up by facts and reasoning.

Most real discussions are two separate informed opinions each saying something else and drawing on facts and/or logic to prove their respective argument. You're not even letting me work here, it's really disappointing. To you, Sturridge is second to Aguero because from your (arguably) biased perspective, he is better technically than everyone else. There is no stat (dribbling/goals/assists/passing) that supports this. There is no general perception (perceived worth/international prestige/public opinion) that supports this either. This is quite literally your opinion that you have fashioned (from all I know, out of thin air). If you can't give me any supporting evidence for this statement, I can't simply take your word for it, so I have to disagree.

At least I have all my facts and stuff with me. cries numerically

@Dyn: true, unfortunately, to some fans especially like me, Mou's tactic was dreadful... using Young for that long....

For me Mourinho made some really good tactical decisions. We can attack when we want, as shown in the Leicester or Stoke game, and today he showed that this team can set up to defend as well.

I'm not saying what Mourinho did today conforms to the Matt Busby standards set at United, but against a free flowing Liverpool who could easily have won the game had it been more open, this was a valuable point. Man City drew 1-1 with Everton and suddenly they're not looking like runaway winners, which is what I said would happen in earlier threads.

United fans when Mourinho was at Chelsea: parking the bus, ruining the game.
United fans now: great tactic.

Spend 185M just to park the bus, great tactic.

Basically. Still more exciting than LVG though, so there's that.

Never expected the thread to do so well, anyway, even though it was a draw, which team can we say really got the better results? United who drawed away? Liverpool who are still close behind the leader despite the results? Share your thought with us if you don't mind! :D

@quikzyyy Maybe that's true to some extent, but Mourinho didn't park the bus at Anfield the same levelt as what he did at Chelsea. The first 15-20 minutes we were pressing the shit out of Liverpool.

But yeah, I'll always be biased towards United manager, maybe from other team's perspective it is hypocritic.

@Sunflash We defeated Liverpool at Anfield twice under LVG, so there's that...

@saatvik

We finished 4th and 5th in his time there, so there's that. If I had the opinion of winning the league and losing to Liverpool twice during the season I'd take in a heartbeat.

I'm a results kinda guy

based on the game.. Liverpool with so many sloppy passes and very unorganized.. United defend using a tank.. in front of a brilliant keeper.. cant say much.. boring game as predicted..

Saatvik: i must disagree with you. It was a tactical choice from Mou, and we got a point we want.

Im not delusional and I know our squad aint that great. But lets face it, its dead boring. I cant see the red shirt playing like this... it isnt much nicer than LVG. We didnt park the bus, but we showed no sign of wanting to win the game either. Thats not MU.

@Sunflash I think you meant option and not opinion. :P

@Tuan_jinn Hard to disagree with that, the results is not what matter the most for a team like united in my opinion, his aim should be of being passionate, ambitious and to play to win it all. Isn't what the Red Devils supposed to do? :(

Also, I would like to state a big point, Zlatan is a mess up front, his age is really starting to show. :P No speed, his size doesn't help him at all and he can't even make the technical move to score an easy goal (ok, he was offside, but he didn't know that, so no excuse). Anyone want to talk about that? :)

(Also, this trhead is such an huge success! :D)