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Lodatz
11 years ago
" When United faced Bilbao that season, they were on a 6 game winning streak, and would continue that form for two more matches even after the Bilbao games. So you see, because United didn't take it seriously they were able to maintain their excellent league form, and because Bilbao went for broke they ended up being tired and losing any hope of getting to the tier above"
Fixed that for you.
Dynastian98
11 years ago
@Lodatz
You're going to Spain. I'm arguing about England.
You're right about the Spanish clubs, and that's due to them not having enough funds to have the depth to participate in all these competitions at once.
I think that you're well trying to hide the fact that English clubs have been unable to proceed to the EL latter stages very well by throwing up the excuse "they don't want league form to suffer". First and foremost, why would a team that is competing for a top 4 finish in England (a Champions League spot) be playing the the Europa League in the first place?
Chelsea did it just fine last season. They, unlike Manchester City, actually won something last season. The EL is a trophy. You call it "second-tier", but matter of fact is that it is a trophy. If English clubs don't find much success in it, maybe it's because they're incapable of finding success in it? Manchester City, Manchester United, and Tottenham have all tried recently, and all failed. Chelsea are the only ones who managed to win it.
You make it sound like winning the EL is the easiest trophy in the world. It's not. It's still very difficult to win. Excluding the monstrous teams of recent years (Bayern, RM, Barca, today's Atletico, yesterday's United, Inter Milan), most would find it difficult to win the CL. As proven by the constant shuffle in winners.
Dynastian98
11 years ago
@Lodatz
By the way, have I ever told you that you speak quite arrogantly when you argue? It's as if you think that you're the only one who's right.
Lodatz
11 years ago
Edited
"You're going to Spain. I'm arguing about England."
No, YOU took us to Spain. I was happy just talking about England, but you started claiming things that were not true, as though they made your point for you. If you want to talk about England, then stop bringing up nonsense about Bilbao and then blaming me for it when I display superior knowledge.
"You're right about the Spanish clubs, and that's due to them not having enough funds to have the depth to participate in all these competitions at once."
Which produces the reality that they're not as good as they are made out to be. What 'could be' and what 'is' are different things.
"I think that you're well trying to hide the fact that English clubs have been unable to proceed to the EL latter stages very well by throwing up the excuse "they don't want league form to suffer""
I think that's entirely the truth, and I base this upon a number of factors, such as: my knowledge of the PL, my life-long experience as an English football fan, my subsequent intimacy with the mentality and attitudes of English clubs and English fans, my 25-year long observation SAF and his attitudes, the stated goals of my own club, the fact that I know a great many more English fans than you do, and the simply OBVIOUS correlation between EL participation and the impact upon league form.
What have you got? When did you become an expert on English football?
"First and foremost, why would a team that is competing for a top 4 finish in England (a Champions League spot) be playing the the Europa League in the first place?"
BECAUSE THEY GET THERE BY LEAGUE POSITION (5th-7th) AND BY GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE CL.
Just like Juventus. Just like Valencia. Just like Benfica, and Porto, and Ajax, etc. It's not exactly a mystery, The difference is: English clubs don't care about it in the same way as, say, Spanish or Italian teams might.
Why? Because for the last decade the English Top 4 has been competing for the Champions League, instead of the Europa League. Why would they give a crap about the EL when there has been every expectation over the last 10 years that an English team in the CL is a potential contender for the trophy?
Priorities, Dynast. Priorities. Spain hadn't had the luxury of expecting anyone other than Barcelona to actually win anything in the CL for a long time. It's only in the last two or three years that even Madrid or Bayern have been particularly relevant, either.
"Chelsea did it just fine last season,"
Because of their rather incredible squad depth, yes, and the fact that they had secured 3rd place, and thus entry into the CL. If you think for one instant that the Chelsea fans (or the board) would rather have won the EL but failed to get into the CL.. then you're simply crazy.
"You call it "second-tier", but matter of fact is that it is a trophy. "
And the matter of fact is that it is ALSO SECOND-TIER. Like, by definition. It's the entire purpose of having two competitions, for goodness' sake. I should not have to explain this.
"If English clubs don't find much success in it, maybe it's because they're incapable of finding success in it?"
Yes, Dynast, because it's not we just spent the last 10 years with English teams making it to 9 CL finalist slots. It really must be because they're just not good enough to beat European teams.
Really. :p
*"You make it sound like winning the EL is the easiest trophy in the world."
No I don't, so stop misrepresenting my words. I make it sound as though it is considered by English clubs to be not as important as getting INTO the Champions League. Which is true.
"By the way, have I ever told you that you speak quite arrogantly when you argue? It's as if you think that you're the only one who's right."
I couldn't give a toss whether or not you think I'm being arrogant. The simple fact is that I am being ACCURATE, and that is what I aim for. I invite you to review this exchange between us, Dynast, and really ask yourself if you think you have a strong case to make here, because if not?
Then you're just refusing to admit you're wrong, which is far worse than being arrogant.
If you wish this to become petty, then keep being petty. I happen to think you can do better than that.
"You're going to Spain. I'm arguing about England."
No, YOU took us to Spain. I was happy just talking about England, but you started claiming things that were not true, as though they made your point for you. If you want to talk about England, then stop bringing up nonsense about Bilbao.
"You're right about the Spanish clubs, and that's due to them not having enough funds to have the depth to participate in all these competitions at once."
Which produces the reality that they're not as good as they are made out to be. What 'could be' and what 'is' are different things.
"I think that you're well trying to hide the fact that English clubs have been unable to proceed to the EL latter stages very well by throwing up the excuse "they don't want league form to suffer""
I think that's entirely the truth, and I base this upon a number of factors, such as: my knowledge of the PL, my life-long experience as an English football fan, my subsequent intimacy with the mentality and attitudes of English clubs and English fans, my 25-year long observation SAF and his attitudes, the stated goals of my own club, the fact that I know a great many more English fans than you do, and the simply OBVIOUS correlation between EL participation and the impact upon league form.
What have you got? When did you become an expert on English football?
"First and foremost, why would a team that is competing for a top 4 finish in England (a Champions League spot) be playing the the Europa League in the first place?"
BECAUSE THEY GET THERE BY LEAGUE POSITION (5th-7th) AND BY GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE CL.
Just like Juventus. Just like Valencia. Just like Benfica, and Porto, and Ajax, etc. It's not exactly a mystery, The difference is: English clubs don't care about it in the same way as, say, Spanish or Italian teams might.
Why? Because for the last decade the English Top 4 has been competing for the Champions League, instead of the Europa League. Why would they give a crap about the EL when there has been every expectation over the last 10 years that an English team in the CL is a potential contender for the trophy?
Priorities, Dynast. Priorities. Spain hadn't had the luxury of expecting anyone other than Barcelona to actually win anything in the CL for a long time. It's only in the last two or three years that even Madrid or Bayern have been particularly relevant, either.
"Chelsea did it just fine last season,"
Because of their rather incredible squad depth, yes, and the fact that they had secured 3rd place, and thus entry into the CL. If you think for one instant that the Chelsea fans (or the board) would rather have won the EL but failed to get into the CL.. then you're simply crazy.
"You call it "second-tier", but matter of fact is that it is a trophy. "
And the matter of fact is that it is ALSO SECOND-TIER. I should not have to explain this.
"If English clubs don't find much success in it, maybe it's because they're incapable of finding success in it?"
Yes, Dynast, because it's not we just spent the last 10 years with English teams making it to 9 CL finalist slots. It really must be because they're just not good enough.
Really. :p
"You make it sound like winning the EL is the easiest trophy in the world."
No I don't, so stop misrepresenting my words. I make it sound as though it is considered by English clubs to be not as important as getting INTO the Champions League.
"By the way, have I ever told you that you speak quite arrogantly when you argue? It's as if you think that you're the only one who's right."
I couldn't give a toss whether or not you think I'm being arrogant. The simple fact is that I am being CORRECT, and that is what I aim for. I invite you to review this exchange between us, Dynast, and really ask yourself if you think you have a strong case to make here, because if not?
Then you're just refusing to admit you're wrong, which is far worse than being arrogant.
"You're going to Spain. I'm arguing about England."
No, YOU took us to Spain. I was happy just talking about England, but you started claiming things that were not true, as though they made your point for you. If you want to talk about England, then stop bringing up nonsense about Bilbao and then blaming me for it when I display superior knowledge.
"You're right about the Spanish clubs, and that's due to them not having enough funds to have the depth to participate in all these competitions at once."
Which produces the reality that they're not as good as they are made out to be. What 'could be' and what 'is' are different things.
"I think that you're well trying to hide the fact that English clubs have been unable to proceed to the EL latter stages very well by throwing up the excuse "they don't want league form to suffer""
I think that's entirely the truth, and I base this upon a number of factors, such as: my knowledge of the PL, my life-long experience as an English football fan, my subsequent intimacy with the mentality and attitudes of English clubs and English fans, my 25-year long observation SAF and his attitudes, the stated goals of my own club, the fact that I know a great many more English fans than you do, and the simply OBVIOUS correlation between EL participation and the impact upon league form.
What have you got? When did you become an expert on English football?
"First and foremost, why would a team that is competing for a top 4 finish in England (a Champions League spot) be playing the the Europa League in the first place?"
BECAUSE THEY GET THERE BY LEAGUE POSITION (5th-7th) AND BY GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE CL.
Just like Juventus. Just like Valencia. Just like Benfica, and Porto, and Ajax, etc. It's not exactly a mystery, The difference is: English clubs don't care about it in the same way as, say, Spanish or Italian teams might.
Why? Because for the last decade the English Top 4 has been competing for the Champions League, instead of the Europa League. Why would they give a crap about the EL when there has been every expectation over the last 10 years that an English team in the CL is a potential contender for the trophy?
Priorities, Dynast. Priorities. Spain hadn't had the luxury of expecting anyone other than Barcelona to actually win anything in the CL for a long time. It's only in the last two or three years that even Madrid or Bayern have been particularly relevant, either.
"Chelsea did it just fine last season,"
Because of their rather incredible squad depth, yes, and the fact that they had secured 3rd place, and thus entry into the CL. If you think for one instant that the Chelsea fans (or the board) would rather have won the EL but failed to get into the CL.. then you're simply crazy.
"You call it "second-tier", but matter of fact is that it is a trophy. "
And the matter of fact is that it is ALSO SECOND-TIER. I should not have to explain this.
"If English clubs don't find much success in it, maybe it's because they're incapable of finding success in it?"
Yes, Dynast, because it's not we just spent the last 10 years with English teams making it to 9 CL finalist slots. It really must be because they're just not good enough to beat European teams.
Really. :p
*"You make it sound like winning the EL is the easiest trophy in the world."
No I don't, so stop misrepresenting my words. I make it sound as though it is considered by English clubs to be not as important as getting INTO the Champions League. Which is true.
"By the way, have I ever told you that you speak quite arrogantly when you argue? It's as if you think that you're the only one who's right."
I couldn't give a toss whether or not you think I'm being arrogant. The simple fact is that I am being ACCURATE, and that is what I aim for. I invite you to review this exchange between us, Dynast, and really ask yourself if you think you have a strong case to make here, because if not?
Then you're just refusing to admit you're wrong, which is far worse than being arrogant.
If you wish this to become petty, then keep being petty. I happen to think you can do better than that.
"You're going to Spain. I'm arguing about England."
No, YOU took us to Spain. I was happy just talking about England, but you started claiming things that were not true, as though they made your point for you. If you want to talk about England, then stop bringing up nonsense about Bilbao and then blaming me for it when I display superior knowledge.
"You're right about the Spanish clubs, and that's due to them not having enough funds to have the depth to participate in all these competitions at once."
Which produces the reality that they're not as good as they are made out to be. What 'could be' and what 'is' are different things.
"I think that you're well trying to hide the fact that English clubs have been unable to proceed to the EL latter stages very well by throwing up the excuse "they don't want league form to suffer""
I think that's entirely the truth, and I base this upon a number of factors, such as: my knowledge of the PL, my life-long experience as an English football fan, my subsequent intimacy with the mentality and attitudes of English clubs and English fans, my 25-year long observation SAF and his attitudes, the stated goals of my own club, the fact that I know a great many more English fans than you do, and the simply OBVIOUS correlation between EL participation and the impact upon league form.
What have you got? When did you become an expert on English football?
"First and foremost, why would a team that is competing for a top 4 finish in England (a Champions League spot) be playing the the Europa League in the first place?"
BECAUSE THEY GET THERE BY LEAGUE POSITION (5th-7th) AND BY GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE CL.
Just like Juventus. Just like Valencia. Just like Benfica, and Porto, and Ajax, etc. It's not exactly a mystery, The difference is: English clubs don't care about it in the same way as, say, Spanish or Italian teams might.
Why? Because for the last decade the English Top 4 has been competing for the Champions League, instead of the Europa League. Why would they give a crap about the EL when there has been every expectation over the last 10 years that an English team in the CL is a potential contender for the trophy?
Priorities, Dynast. Priorities. Spain hadn't had the luxury of expecting anyone other than Barcelona to actually win anything in the CL for a long time. It's only in the last two or three years that even Madrid or Bayern have been particularly relevant, either.
"Chelsea did it just fine last season,"
Because of their rather incredible squad depth, yes, and the fact that they had secured 3rd place, and thus entry into the CL. If you think for one instant that the Chelsea fans (or the board) would rather have won the EL but failed to get into the CL.. then you're simply crazy.
"You call it "second-tier", but matter of fact is that it is a trophy. "
And the matter of fact is that it is ALSO SECOND-TIER. I should not have to explain this.
"If English clubs don't find much success in it, maybe it's because they're incapable of finding success in it?"
Yes, Dynast, because it's not we just spent the last 10 years with English teams making it to 9 CL finalist slots. It really must be because they're just not good enough to beat European teams.
Really. :p
*"You make it sound like winning the EL is the easiest trophy in the world."
No I don't, so stop misrepresenting my words. I make it sound as though it is considered by English clubs to be not as important as getting INTO the Champions League. Which is true.
"By the way, have I ever told you that you speak quite arrogantly when you argue? It's as if you think that you're the only one who's right."
I couldn't give a toss whether or not you think I'm being arrogant. The simple fact is that I am being ACCURATE, and that is what I aim for. I invite you to review this exchange between us, Dynast, and really ask yourself if you think you have a strong case to make here, because if not?
Then you're just refusing to admit you're wrong, which is far worse than being arrogant.
If you wish this to become petty, then keep being petty. I happen to think you can do better than that.
tiki_taka
11 years ago
Well that was an interesting discussion.
I share more Dynast view, because English teams poor form after the boxing day is not really our problem...
Jose Mourinho today demanded English football show Chelsea some "respect" as he continued his litany of complaints about the end of the season.
Mourinho was again terse and grumpy during the broadcast section of his news conference at the club's Cobham headquarters, responding to a series of questions with minimal answers.
The Chelsea boss insisted he did not feel "free" to answer for fear of another FA charge – he is currently facing his third of the season for his remarks about referee Mike Dean and officials' chief Mike Riley.
But that changed, briefly, in response to a question from the television commentator who will be on the microphone at Anfield on Sunday, who asked if the the Blues' fans did not want their side to go to Merseyside to win.
"No," replied Mourinho. "I think Chelsea fans want Chelsea FC to be respected and to get the respect Chelsea FC deserves.
"They know what Chelsea have done for the club and for English football for the last 10 years.
"They've been the most important club to defend this country in European competitions: they won the Champions League, they won the Europa League, they think Chelsea deserve more respect that they are getting.
"So they want Chelsea to go to Liverpool and play, as always, at the maximum, giving everything they have. Which players? That's our decision, not your decision."
Mourinho had earlier confirmed skipper John Terry has a chance of recovering from his ankle injury to face Atletico Madrid on Wednesday.
As regards his team selection for Anfield, though, Mourinho maintained his talks with the Chelsea board and the squad were ''private''.
Quizzed if fielding a weakened team might be against the spirit of the competition, he replied: ''Ask the competition. I cannot answer.
"You want me to laugh or to cry? I can't say the truth because I don't feel free.
"Every time I speak, there's a consequence. Even when I think the referee is amazing, there's a reason to be charged. So I don't feel free at all. If you want a better press conference, speak with the FA.
"The most important thing for me is my club, and the supporters of my club. They're the most important thing for me. My club and Chelsea supporters.
"I have to defend my club, and I have to defend Chelsea supporters.
"And, if we are not helped to try to follow our dreams and our objectives, one more reason for us to close ranks, to try and think about us and only about us."
Mourinho pointed out that, while Atletico also play on Sunday, that is only because their opponents, Valencia, were in Europa League action on Thursday evening.
Ruling out any idea that he might quit Chelsea for the vacant Manchester United job - "I don't know how someone could think about it.
"They play Sunday because they play, luckily for us, Valencia and they played in the Europa League.
"If they'd played another team, they would be playing today and they would have 48 hours more than us to rest.
"'We have to work in the maximum of our possibilities, to give everything to our club, to make our families proud of us as good, professional honest people, and we have to sleep well at night. That is all."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/defiant-jose-mourinho-wants-see-3456266#ixzz2zuphmrpT
Few points :
1. FA Is a joke for charging him . It is like EPL is under dictatorship ...so much less freedom that I heard USA considering to invade to EPL . I thought England has freedom of speech . If referees deserves a praise , he should not get punished for it and even if referee deserves criticism . They should be investigated and evaluated and if needed educated about their mistakes .
2. Respect : This might sound little strong but If it was not for Manchester United and Chelsea for the past 10 years , EPL probably would not have 4th spot .
3. FA Support : FA Money hungry organization somehow expects to be best league in the world while still making things difficult for English Clubs in Europe . How much obstacle did they face in rescheduling the match ? None .
4. Liverpool match : Chelsea has every right to field any team they want to against LIverpool. If FA worries about spirit of competition then why the fck they won't move our game to Saturday or even Friday ? Liverpool agreed and other clubs would have agree to switch with our fixture .
Jose Mourinho today demanded English football show Chelsea some "respect" as he continued his litany of complaints about the end of the season.
Mourinho was again terse and grumpy during the broadcast section of his news conference at the club's Cobham headquarters, responding to a series of questions with minimal answers.
The Chelsea boss insisted he did not feel "free" to answer for fear of another FA charge – he is currently facing his third of the season for his remarks about referee Mike Dean and officials' chief Mike Riley.
But that changed, briefly, in response to a question from the television commentator who will be on the microphone at Anfield on Sunday, who asked if the the Blues' fans did not want their side to go to Merseyside to win.
"No," replied Mourinho. "I think Chelsea fans want Chelsea FC to be respected and to get the respect Chelsea FC deserves.
"They know what Chelsea have done for the club and for English football for the last 10 years.
"They've been the most important club to defend this country in European competitions: they won the Champions League, they won the Europa League, they think Chelsea deserve more respect that they are getting.
"So they want Chelsea to go to Liverpool and play, as always, at the maximum, giving everything they have. Which players? That's our decision, not your decision."
Mourinho had earlier confirmed skipper John Terry has a chance of recovering from his ankle injury to face Atletico Madrid on Wednesday.
As regards his team selection for Anfield, though, Mourinho maintained his talks with the Chelsea board and the squad were ''private''.
Quizzed if fielding a weakened team might be against the spirit of the competition, he replied: ''Ask the competition. I cannot answer.
"You want me to laugh or to cry? I can't say the truth because I don't feel free.
"Every time I speak, there's a consequence. Even when I think the referee is amazing, there's a reason to be charged. So I don't feel free at all. If you want a better press conference, speak with the FA.
"The most important thing for me is my club, and the supporters of my club. They're the most important thing for me. My club and Chelsea supporters.
"I have to defend my club, and I have to defend Chelsea supporters.
"And, if we are not helped to try to follow our dreams and our objectives, one more reason for us to close ranks, to try and think about us and only about us."
Mourinho pointed out that, while Atletico also play on Sunday, that is only because their opponents, Valencia, were in Europa League action on Thursday evening.
Ruling out any idea that he might quit Chelsea for the vacant Manchester United job - "I don't know how someone could think about it.
"They play Sunday because they play, luckily for us, Valencia and they played in the Europa League.
"If they'd played another team, they would be playing today and they would have 48 hours more than us to rest.
"'We have to work in the maximum of our possibilities, to give everything to our club, to make our families proud of us as good, professional honest people, and we have to sleep well at night. That is all."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/defiant-jose-mourinho-wants-see-3456266#ixzz2zuphmrpT
Few points :
1. FA Is a joke for charging him . It is like EPL is under dictatorship ...so much less freedom that I heard USA considering to invade to EPL . I thought England has freedom of speech . If referees deserves a praise , he should not get punished for it and even if referee deserves criticism . They should be investigated and evaluated and if needed educated about their mistakes .
2. Respect : This might sound little strong but If it was not for Manchester United and Chelsea for the past 10 years , EPL probably would not have 4th spot .
3. FA Support : FA Money hungry organization somehow expects to be best league in the world while still making things difficult for English Clubs in Europe . How much obstacle did they face in rescheduling the match ?
4. Liverpool match : Chelsea has every right to field any team they want to against LIverpool. If FA worries about spirit of competition then why the fck they want move our game to Saturday ? Liverpool agreed and other clubs would have agree to switch with our fixture .