FT: Brazil 3-0 Spain
and Brazil have won the FIFA Confederations Cup for the 3rd time in a row!! Congratulations!!!!

Thoughts?

That Neymar kid is pretty good. :P

They totally out-played Spain. Stunning performance. I thought it was going to be the other way around!

Congratulations

Honestly I didn't doubt that Brazil would win, but they outdid Spain on EVERYTHING. My hat's off to them. To completely outplay the reigning champs of Europe and the last world cup, at home, in that fashion, was awesome. Great football.

just like bayern outclassed barca. now they found a way to defeat the tiki taka style

Brazil's savior:

it's the official end of tiki-taka's era ! Brazil all the way ♥

Didn't watch the match :(

Anyway I think Spains tiki-taka era ended a long time ago, possibly in the Euro but they didn't play Germany. Also, this is like the 1st time playing Brazil in a while.

Lol guys you can't be serious, Spain lost because 11 Brazilians (or 12) played better than 11 spanish. When Spain and Barça win, its not because they play tiki-taka its because they play better. They won cups because players were good and in form, now they lost because they weren't.
Arbeloa,Pique, and Ramos were poor,very poor. Mata did not fit in the team and Torres had no chances...
What is scaring me is Xavi's form, hope he's just tired. I have to say that Brazil's defence is actually the best in the world, the pair Silva-Luiz were awesome. at 1-1 the match would be completely different, Neymar scored 3min later and killed the match.

The only team who played Tiki taka were Brazil ; Barça will win La liga next year and you will say : tiki-taka is back.

@tiki_taka. Well tiki-taka is surely alive now with Barcelona. But against Brazil and Bayern this system showed it's limits. They need to change their way of moving or else other top class team will either copy them, or find ways to survive, just like Chelsea in 2012.

Its not a problem of system i repeat, its a problem of players... when we raped Bayern 4-0 1 st half and RM 5-0, its not because we played tiki-taka, its because players were in an incredible form and motivation, its the same for the loss.
@expertfootball well Spain were average all the year, they are in our WC qualifying group, they drew agaisnt Finland and France, won in pk against Italy its not like Brazil beat last years Spain, and Del bosque can already start to pick up from Spain\\\'s U21 WC champions and U20 (future champions) so those who expect and end will get frustrated AGAIN.

@tiki: I don't agree that the system/style had nothing to do with it.

It's not just that you had such amazing players in superb form; it's the fact that those players were playing in a way that maximized their particular talents. Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Busquets, Messi, Pedro, Alves, Pique... all are pass-masters and technically outstanding.

But, only Messi (and possibly Alves) have any real pace. Only Busquets and Pique have any height. Only Puyol and Toure had any real physicality. Few of these players would have shone as much as they did at another club, playing another system. I mean, take Pedro. Brilliant for Barca, but, you couldn't really expect him to be anything special somewhere else.

It was the system which brought out the fantastic best in the team, because it was exactly what they were best at, and when all playing together, on that same wavelength, using a style that no-one had ever seen taken to that level... it swept away all before it, for both Barcelona and Spain.

The rest of the world has had 6 years to wake up, catch up, and shape up, in order to defeat that system. And some of the teams out there have done that.

The game will evolve again, as it always does. We were privileged to witness the era when tiki-taka, Spain, and Barcelona took technical football to perfection. :)

But no era lasts forever...

@Lodatz

Pedro is world class, with Barça with spain,he sent Henry to the bench... If I understand what you are saying is that Barça players are overated individually, only teams work and tiki taka makes them shine ?

Its the opposite, you need to be a world class player to fit in this style of play, it is the simplest way to play Football and when you have world class team it does work. Crujf\'s Ajax and Brazil 82 used the same style of short passes, not everyone is able to play this style and not the opposite. A lot of spanish teams tried to copy it, why it does\'nt work cause they don\'t have those players. Barça and Spain won everything past years cause 80pr cent of the team individually were the best at their posts. stats,goals.......etc

Tell me where Pedro can\'t perform and why ? Yaya toure was underrated at Barça,Fabregas was an EPL top3, he is just a simple player in Barça, cause everyone has his level or higher.

you are talking about tiki taka as it was Barça or Spain propriety, it's not something new in football...
It comes from Futsal skills and every team can do it if they are enough good.

@tiki: I know very well that other teams have played passing-based styles in the past. That's not what my point was.

My point was that Barcelona (and by extension, Spain) have taken a particular style to new heights, because they had the players perfectly suited to do so. They proved a point, almost, which is that players like Xavi, Iniesta and Dani Alves would probably have been considered too lightweight, for all their skill, without a system that played to their strengths.

This is not my speculation. This is precisely what Guardiola (emulating his idol, Cruyff) set out to do, when he took over the helm at Barca. You can find numerous quotes from him backing me up.

Xavi always had the skill he has, but he was in no-man's land until that switch to pure tiki-taka. Same with Iniesta. Both of them were exceptionally good players before Guardiola, but until he came along, they both looked merely decent, instead, because neither Rijkaard nor Van Gaal based a team around them. Rijkaard's team, may have INCLUDED them, but the stars and the style of that team were dictated by Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o, who were individualistic (that is, their strengths came from what they could do on their own) players. No-one was talking about Xavi or Iniesta as all-time greatest midfielders, or the best players in the world, were they?

Then came Pep, then came his religious devotion to tiki-taka, then came the offloading of Ron and Deco, then came the basing of the team around Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, then came the 6-second rule, then game the obsessive possession game...

...then came the greatest team club team in recent world history.

That did not happen without the style to suit these players. It could not have happened. Messi was nearly sold to Celtic, for goodness' sake, he was that unhappy with how the team functioned.

Sorry, but I'm not going to agree about Pedro being world class. He's a good player, but he mainly fits into the system. Yes, players like Iniesta and Xavi (and of course Messi above all) would have shone anywhere they went, it's only at Barca where the entire team, the entire style, revolves around them, and Busquets. It's only at Barca that their genius, talent and strengths were maximized by the coach, and their weaknesses made irrelevant.

Pedro is not in that class. He'd never have made it into Rijkaard's team. He'd barely make it off the bench at Real, United, Bayern, BVB, City or Chelsea. I even struggle to imagine him working out at Arsenal or Spurs. He could probably slot into the other top Spanish teams, because they're all to greater or lesser extent copying Barcelona these days, but elsewhere? I'm not buying it.

What he IS, is he's perfect for Barca, and the system that was developed by Pep. THAT's what forced Henry out of the line-up. THAT's why Ibrahimovic never settled. THAT's why genuinely world class players have not worked out at Barcelona -- they're just not what Guardiola and Messi needed for the style of play they wanted; they style of play which became so successful.

As for Fabregas, well, what are we to expect? He was the heart of Arsenal, who managed to punch on level footing with Barca, despite having a team with only half their talent. Henry aside, he was easily their most important player of the last decade. He goes to Barcelona, after they hound him, and ends up sharing game-time with the players he was supposedly brought to replace.

Is anyone honestly going to try and claim that Fabregas isn't good enough? He's bloody fantastic, and I'd have him at the Lane in a heartbeat (that takes a LOT of saying, for a Spurs fan). It's just that he's not Xavi. He can't do exactly what Xavi does, which is what Barcelona want/need. He's not quite Iniesta, either. He can't do exactly what Iniesta does, which is what Barcelona want/need. The system, the ethos, the TEAM itself, takes a front seat to everything else, and that system was built around Xavi, the Don, and Messi.

That's why they can't be replaced. The system will need to change.

In fact, let's bring up Gerard Pique, while we're at it, as an example of the opposite effect. Barely featured for Man United, was loaded out to Zaragotha of all places, and then bought back at a snip for 5m. Nothing special. Another player who had lots of promise, but wasn't in the manager's plans because he didn't tick the right boxes, so was offloaded by United for a bit of cash.

Then he comes home to Camp Nou, and becomes recognized as one of the greatest defenders in the world! Within, like, a season! What the hell could have made the difference??

Answer: the system. It was perfect for him, which is why Pep snapped him up. At United he wasn't fast, strong or aggressive enough to cut it in the Premier League; at Barcelona his skill, passing ability and game-reading skills were EXACTLY what Guardiola wanted, and exactly what the team needed. Perfect fit, and incredible results.

What would happen if Pique went back to United, or City, or Chelsea, or Bayern? He'd barely make it off the bench, because he's not what they need to compete in their own leagues.

The style has been hugely important to Barcelona's (and thus, Spain's) success. It was the style which got them the 2009 Champions League title (and some help from the ref along the way :p). It was the style that triumphed in 2010. It was the absolute perfection of that style which beat the world in 2011. It was that style which thrashed Italy in 2012.

And it's the style which everyone else has been watching, learning from, and analyzing in the hopes of finding ways to stop it. And now, teams are starting to do so.

@Lodatz sorry but the way you talk about Barcelona players as individuals you make them turn out to be above average at best. I don't buy that one bit.

Not at all. I think if anything Barcelona has shown most of them to be outstanding.

But many of them shine because the style of football they use maximizes their talents and minimizes their weaknesses. Take Dani Alves. He's not that great defensively, but, with his understanding with Messi on the right hand side, with Busquets and Pique nearby to help him out with passing options, who cares? His passing ability and speed are good enough to make up for that lack of tackling ability, because he can play his way out of almost any situation.

So he's one of the best right-backs in the world.... without being that good at tackling or defensive positioning. His qualities shine in the Barca back-line, because even the defense are excellent passers/technicians, and so it works out just fine for him.

Without such players around him, making use of his great passing and technique, he'd be far less effective. Imagine him alongside Terry, for instance, or Vidic. They're outstanding defenders, but not the type that would link well with him.

With Barcelona, EVERYONE links well with each other.

In fact, with Alves, you could see what I meant in this Confederations Cup. It's hard to knock Brazil for much in this tournament, but if they had a weak link at the back, it was Alves. Why?

Because when he doesn't have that understanding with the players around him that he does at Barca, when they're not playing to suit his style, he is less effective.

I think that Pedro can be better without Messi than with Messi, he is better in Spain than in Barça, this year was his worst year but he is still world class, better than Navas.... If Silva, Mata,cazorla,fabregas.... are titulars in the big four teams, Pedro could play at ANY CLUB of EPL, Ben arfa took 10 kilos of muscles in one year,Pedro will adapt faster to those players. It's your own point it isn\"t mine, i am seeing every Barça match for years, and what Pedro does i don' t think many players can do it, pedro >>> Thiago actually and if Thiago goes to Man utd you will see how a lightweight youngster will perform in EPL.
You are talking about tiki taka as a way of transforming a decent player to a great player, i think that you need to be world class to play tiki taka. I know how good he is to not change my point of view.
Spanish players are rarely flops at EPL even decent players are playing (arteta for example) maybe you are
overating EPL level.

@tiki: Thiago is a totally different situation. I've said repeatedly that he would excel at United, if he made a move there.

As for overrating, well, maybe you are overrating a player just because he plays for Barcelona. I think you'll find that the Spaniards who are excelling in the Premier League are nearly all midfielders, not strikers. The only good example in your favor is Michu, who let's face it is a totally different type of player.

And yes, of course tiki-taka transforms players. Otherwise there would be zero point in actually freaking using it, wouldn't there? It doesn't suit everyone, and just because it doesn't is not a benchmark of their skill or talent level. Would you say that Ibrahimovic is crap, just because he didn't 'cut it' at Barcelona? I guarantee you if Ronaldo played for Barca he would not suit the team as well as he suits Madrid. Does that mean he's crap?

Pedro has played one system his entire career. I somehow think I'm not the one doing the overrating, here. :P