SternDesSuedens
11 years ago
of course Guardiola had a better basis than Heynckes back then, but Pep's system is one of the hardest to master I think.
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SternDesSuedens
11 years ago
of course Guardiola had a better basis than Heynckes back then, but Pep's system is one of the hardest to master I think.
Dynastian98
11 years ago
@Stern
You're absolutely right.
Lodatz
11 years ago
Now that was an excellent discussion.
tiki_taka
11 years ago
Edited
And what if i said that Rossell ruined Laportas work, there is one reason i can always excuse players for dropping form, everything has been done badly in the management, and it felt on the pitch.
Barça squad was a family, with players sharing everything and getting pleasure in playing with each others...
Rossell arrived and one year later Pep decided to leave, Tixi Bergiristan ( Barça legend ) left to City, and after that stupid choices was made in term of signings and management...
I would say that Tiki taka is over if we lost with a balanced team, i still think with the right signings and a healthy atmosphere success can happen again. We did some outstanding performences this year but we were not consistent.
Against Celtic, Real Madrid, Atletico, Man City etc...
But at those games, Iniesta Alves and Messi were all in form which is rare nowadays, and the actual level of rivals is progressing every year...
So its not just the style of play who gives you success or failure, there are many other things to keep a team on top of Europe and we just did not what was needed to be done.
How a team like Barça can wait 2 WHOLE years without signing in defense, how can Iniesta or Messi win you games if your defense is full of wholes and your GK is Pinto ? How can you blame a coach without a proper 9 ?
In CL you pay every single mistake cash, and its just what happened you cant blame players or tactics, the whole institution and management were bad.
Without Messi/Iniesta, our situation would have looked worse than it is now.
With Pique/Puyol of the old days and Villa in form, things were very diferent for every player on the pitch, now we have Bartra/Mascerano and Fabregas as a false 9, Alexis a winger who has number 9, Mascerano and Song playing in odd positions...
I really cant blame the players, in CL we lost before entering the pitch...
And what if i said that Rossell ruined Laportas work, there is one reason i can always excuse players for dropping form, everything has been done badly in the management, and it felt on the pitch.
Barça squad was a family, with players sharing everything and getting pleasure in playing with each others...
Rossell arrived and one year later Pep decided to leave, Tixi Bergiristan ( Barça legend ) left to City, and after that stupid choices was made in term of signings and management...
I would say that Tiki taka is over if we lost with a balanced team, i still think with the right signings and a healthy atmosphere success can happen again. We did some outstanding performences this year but we were not consistent.
Against Celtic, Real Madrid, Atletico, Man City etc...
But at those games, Iniesta Alves and Messi were all in form which is rare nowadays, and the actual level of rivals is progressing every year...
So its not just the style of play who gives you success or failure, there are many other things to keep a team on top of Europe and we just did not what was needed to be done.
How a team like Barça can wait 2 WHOLE years without signing in defense, how can Iniesta or Messi win you games if your defense is full of wholes and your GK is Pinto ? How can you blame a coach without a proper 9 ?
In CL you pay every single mistake cash, and its just what happened you cant blame players or tactics, the whole institution and management were bad.
Without Messi/Iniesta, our situation would have looked worse than it is now.
With Pique/Puyol of the old days and Villa in form, things were very diferent for every player on the pitch, now we have Bartra/Mascerano and Fabregas as a false 9, Alexis a winger who has number 9, Mascerano and Song playing in odd positions...
I really cant blame the players, in CL we lost before entering the pitch...
tuan_jinn
11 years ago
Edited
Spot on, @tiki!
I feel like, and according to the media, Barca's management since the last few years has been a mess, no less. Things happened off the pitch went too far that of course would negatively affect the players on the pitch. Some are unfortunate, and some should have been dealt with differently.
The signing and slow adaption is also questionable...
The management needs to sort it out quickly so football fans can see the like of Iniesta, Messi, Xavi again.
Spot on, @tiki!
tiki_taka
11 years ago
Edited
Agreed. And for arrogance when you look to Real Madrid squad :
Di Maria and Coentrao : Best Benfica players at that time.
Isco illaramendi jésé Morata Carvajal : World cup champions under 19 and 21.
Bale Modric : Best Tottenham players of the decade.
Ronaldo : Best Man Utd player past years.
Khedira Marcelo Pepe Varane and Benz : Starters in Big national teams.
Xavi Alonso - Casillas - Ramos - Arbeloa : Euro 2008 - World cup 2010 - Euro 2012 winners in a row and part of the Spanish national team senior.
if you add to this Ancelotti as a coach and Zidane bringing his winning speeches, with the backgroung Mourinho has left, and the healthy atmosphere they have in dressing room you have a good winning Formula.
I understand people seeing this like arrogance but reality is here, on the sheet its hard to compete. At least if they look arrogant they have many reasons to be like this...
Many are arrogant without any single reason and thats the worst for me.
And for arrogance when you look to Real Madrid squad :
Di Maria and Coentrao : Best Benfica players at that time.
Isco illaramendi jésé Morata Carvajal : World cup champions under 19 and 21.
Bale Modric : Best Tottenham players of the decade.
Ronaldo : Best Man Utd player past years.
Khedira Marcelo Pepe Varane and Benz : Starters in Big national teams.
Xavi Alonso - Casillas - Ramos - Arbeloa : Euro 2008 - World cup 2010 - Euro 2012 winners in a row and part of the Spanish national team senior.
if you add to this Ancelotti as a coach and Zidane bringing his winning speeches, with the backgroung Mourinho has left, and the healthy atmosphere they have in dressing room you have a good winning Formula.
I understand people seeing this like arrogance but reality is here, on the sheet its hard to compete. At least if they look arrogant they have many reasons to be like this...
Many are arrogant without any single reason and thats the worst for me.
Uhmn,
NO!
This is a misleading title, and it's what everyone is saying tonight!
In my opinion, it's just not right. I think what's everyone is referring to is R.I.P possession game, not tiki-taka.
Barca's 2009-2010 and in their prime time was the real example of this tactic: high pressing, super fast + accurate one-two passing, and high possession (+ Messi :D).
What Bayern showed today is a lot slower, confusing and boring... it's not tiki-taka. Barca and Bayern in recent weeks have dropped their forms, played slowly and that's where they left tiki-taka.
2012 -> 2014, Barca has unintentionally altered or hasn't truely played tiki-taka.
I am a big fan of this beautiful football when they trashed us (MU) in 2 CL's finals in such spectacular fashion. Someone please bring it back.
Uhmn,
NO!
This is a misleading title, and it's what everyone is saying tonight!
In my opinion, it's just not right. I think what's everyone is referring to is R.I.P possession game, not tiki-taka.
Barca's 2009-2010 and in their prime time was the real example of this tactic: high pressing, super fast + accurate one-two passing, and high possession (+ Messi :D).
What Bayern showed today is a lot slower, confusing and boring... it's not tiki-taka. Barca and Bayern in recent weeks have dropped their forms, played slowly and that's where they left tiki-taka.
2012 -> 2014, Barca has unintentionally altered or hasn't truely played tiki-taka.
I am a big fan of this beautiful football when they trashed us (MU) in 2 CL's final in a spectacular fashion. Someone please bring it back.