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A Spurs Fan's Take On Sunday's North London Derby
Comments
Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

Overall, an excellent piece. Balances, fair, and enjoyable.
I do have to disagree vehemently regarding the whole notion that "Arsenal are where they should be/Wenger is Arsenal/The fans are unrealistic whingers". That is completely wrong on so many levels, although I won't hold it against the author as he is not an Arsenal fan privy to the reasons. I could create an entire thread on the subject that would read like a depressing book so I won't delve into it but I suggest you take my word on it. We are serial underachievers.
Moreover, I hardly think his comment about the NLD derby being the "greatest football rivalry" was a bit over the top. It's good to embrace the excitement but hyperbole seemed out of place in such a nice piece.

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

Oh yea, I already mentioned this to you @Lodatz but I repeat:
1- Spurs are favourites to win this NLD. They have been a bit underwhelming the past 2 weeks but their season has been very good overall and I think (as I initially predicted) that AVB is doing a job there. Arsenal's form has been absolutely woeful and this year has been all but a complete disaster. If we manage to win the NLD I really think we'll take 4th.
2- IMO, everything is in Spurs' hands to take Arsenal's place in Europe next year. If they manage to fuck it up then I think they will have a hard time recovering in the coming years. Reason I say that is I believe the other top teams will all invest heavily (INCLUDING ARSENAL for once). Moreover, we all know how important it is to be in the CL when courting top talent.
3- I hope it's a good game whatever happens. Of course I want us to win but I wouldn't be shocked if we lost it and finished outside of the top 4. Consistent mistakes without redress has led us to this position and if we manage to hold on for the next 1-2 years I think we'll take off and fight for titles again.

Here's to the match that never fails to live entertain...

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

@Footaholic: I think when he refers to the NLD as the greatest rivalry in football, he's highlighting the fact that it is a PURELY footballing rivalry.

Obviously everyone knows El Clasico, but the importance and significance of that rivalry is amplified by the political divisions and history of the country. It's really only since the Cruyff era that the argument was about football, and even then there was a huge gap until the Rijkaard period.

The Old Firm matches are probably the most heated and most bitter in all of football, but that's not surprising since it's tied heavily into religions divides, and the sectarian politics of both Glasgow, Northern Ireland, and British Imperialism. 

The Milan Derby is another which divides a city due to political attitudes (at least when it was begun -- since the Berlusconi days AC Milan have been quite cosmopolitan and upper-class, instead of the old-style, isolationist working class roots it began with, and which Internazionale scoffed at as the rich, international counterpart.

Even the Manchester United and Liverpool rivalry has revolved around which city was dominant, and this inevitably draws in the various ethnic and class-based disparities between the two cities.

But with Tottenham and Arsenal, it has only ever been about football. 

Believe it or not, they started with similar demographics; the early Gunners were as much Jewish as the early Spurs fans, just for example. Same part of the city, same class, same lifestyle, same everything. The difference (and rivalry) was always, always, over who played the better football.

And until Wenger came, we had you sods on the ropes. ;)

In that sense, it's one of, if not the purest rivalries in all of football, world-wide, and he can lay claim to greatness, because of it. And if you go down to N17, or N5, or indeed any area with a postcode beginning with N, there is no game in the world that matches the NLD for importance.

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

I understood what he meant I just think it's a bit of a stretch.  

"And until Wenger came, we had you sods on the ropes." - C'mon man, I thought you were better than that. Rewriting history is a bit beneath you.

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

Really? Does this ring a bell?

"Boring, boring Arsenal!"
"One nil to the Arsenal!"

I'm rewriting nothing. ;) I didn't say that we were more successful, but we've been known for playing attractive football since the 50s. That's what made it hurt so much when Wenger did come along; we may have mostly been behind you lot in the table, but we always were able to tell ourselves that we played the better/more entertaining football. Since Wenger arrived, we didn't even have that!

History didn't begin in 1996... O:)

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

tranquil mi amigo. I was simply pointing out that your insinuation that Tottenham had the upper hand in the NLD's prior to Wenger was inaccurate. In fact, they've always been well contested, even in Wenger's era and that is part of what makes it so special.

Now you've gone off track and brought up the "boring, boring Arsenal". I personally haven't ever met a gooner who took offense to that. IT harkens back to the immovable defense of ol Graham's famous back four, something I think most fans feel a bit nostalgic about considering the fact that we are simply incapable of even the school-boy level defending now. As for the "one nil to the Arsenal" that was our own chant and everyone knew that once we were up (usually the inevtiable Wright goal) it was all over. 

I also find it amusing that you insinuate we always played that way though. That was a trademark of the George Graham era and if you think we always played boring then you're having a laugh. We've had some of the most entertaining players in the world in our history.

I take nothing away from Spurs's pride at having an attacking history. Just don't make up stuff about ours.

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

I'm not making anything up, though, is the point.

I never said that we had the 'upper hand' in the NLD, and even explained what I meant, so there's no need to go off on that tangent. I was talking, from the start, about 'better football'. What that means to you may vary from what it means to me, but since there WAS the Boring, Boring chant, I suspect you might want to wind your neck in a little bit (I also didn't mention the "same old Arsenal, always cheating" song, that was sung up and down the country (as was the Boring Boring), not just at WHL). 

As for the "One Nil", yes I'm course I'm aware it was your own chant. I'm simply reminding you that you lot took pride in (and you say are nostalgic for) your team playing the same way that Stoke play right now. Yes, that's right, Stoke. The 'rugby' team.

Wrighty may have been prolific, but considering Arsenal averaged one of the worst For Goals stats in the whole league for about 7 years, again, I think you might want to reconsider your argument. ;)

Like I said, before Wenger, we played the 'better' football. I was, yes, really thinking of the 10-20 years just before, so if you want me to admit that Arsenal haven't ALWAYS been that way, then sure, I'll concede that part. So, tell me, what WERE you guys known for, before that?


For everyone else: this is why the NLD is such a good rivalry. This argument could go on for days. ;)

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

whoa there, someone's getting a bit touchy. 

You may never have said it but that is why I used the word "insinuate". Saying you have "someone on the ropes" intimates that you at least have some sort of advantage. I just wanted to clarify that bit but then you backtracked and meant that you played the better football which, again I'm not arguing against, but that was not clear from the initial statement. 

You tell me that "History didn't begin in 1996" but I when I elaborate on our history you whimsically remark that you were only specifically talking about a 10 year interval.

Now, you go on bringing up "same old arsenal always cheating". Again, what does that have to do with my points? I confess, I'm not positive how that song came to be (I have my suspicions I know why) but it is sung at almost every team now as one of those boring generic chants. Again, I'm not sure what the point of bring that up is except to divert the discussion to mudslinging, which I'm franklly not interested in.

Notice how in this entire conversation I haven't said one innacurate or even subtly negative thing about the Spurs. That is how you do it.

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

Not at all, mate. I'm simply clarifying, since you've taken us off on those tangents yourself.

Go back and read the original post. I felt it reads just how I intended it to; right after the line about better football comes the line about the ropes. If this was unclear to you, or ambiguously worded, then fair enough -- that's why I explained, and have now had to explain three times. ;)

My 'insinuation' was about the football, and you'll notice that so too have all my 'bringings up' have been about the football, because, just to reiterate: ALL OF THOSE SONGS ARE ABOUT THE FOOTBALL, too.

Everything I have said has been relevant to that. The only touchiness has come from you, here, taking offense at the idea that Spurs have had the upper hand in the derbies (which I didn't say), and the idea that Arsenal have always played boringly in all their history before Wenger (which I've ceded to you is not necessarily the case -- but you're not offering up anything else they've been known for).

Did I strike a nerve, to get you so riled up? O:)

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

Not at all. just some friendly pre-derby banter (which I suspect you were up for as well :)

I didn't address the "what were you know for before that" thing because I'm not sure there is an answer. Does every team have to be "known" for something? I can say we were the first professional london football club and the first to ever win a top flight trophy. Is that enough?

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quikzyyy 12 years ago
Arsenal 429 9010

I'm afraid of this match because : GARETH BALE

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

@Footaholic: That sounds like a fair reply to me, sure. ;)

@quik: In fairness, I worry about Cazorla running rings around Parker, so maybe we're even. ;)

Overall though, what would any football site be without some banter before the NLD? Hehe.

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haska123 12 years ago
Arsenal, England 0 30

one man can not lead the whole team to champions league, even if spurs finish above US they aint got the 16 years champions league experience. 
my prediction for the game is arsenal 3:2 spurs 

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Lodatz 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 150 4992

@haska123: 1 final in 16 years, which you lost.

We had one single season, where we beat the European champions and got to the quarters.

Are you sure you want to bring up 'experience', in this context? ;)

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Jimskeleton 12 years ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 7 728

Didn't RVP single handedly lead Arsenal to the CL last season? so why can't Bale.

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ramaboy10 12 years ago
Mauritius 285 6463

I think Spurs will win... they are pretty srong at the moment, with Bale on excellent for and all

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AjaxDeSuperYids 12 years ago
Ajax, Netherlands 24 507

i hope Spurs win :)

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

Sadly, I am all too aware of the financial situation. That piece of shit Kroenke will be the death of this club. They didn't mention this in that article but just to give you an extra kick, part of the big 5 year shirt sponsorship deal we just signed with Fly Emirates is based upon stipulations that we remain in the CL. In other words, in addition to losing the actual CL revenue our commercial deal will drop from the 150m pounds to an estimated 120m.

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Footaholic 12 years ago
Arsenal, Egypt 178 2277

Spurs fans rejoice! Hot off today's presser...

Reporter: "Will you [Wenger] need to plan for Bale"
Wenger: "We don't plan for anybody"

Well, there you have it; straight from the horse's mouth. "We don't plan for anybody". Well, that just about sums it all up doesn't it? Not a surprise to anyone with eyes but still, incredible.... indefensible, really.

Look, I generally agree with the philosophy that it's best to concentrate on perfecting your own style and forcing it upon the opposition but when your not doing that well either you need to prepare with greater prudence. It's not as if we've been sweeping the world aside by "just focusing on our game".

God help us all

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